[December] UPDATED: Jump Fuel and Jump Fatigue Cap changes

[CCP_Fozzie]

@Bjor_Ambramotte

@CCP_Fozzie Would you consider doubling the size of fuel bays now? I don’t think it would affect your described goals. If not across the board doubling of fuel bay size maybe +50% for caps, +100% for Blops and JF?

Something along these lines would be something worth considering, yes.

[CCP_Lebowski]

Damn, Fozzie beat me to it! And, yeah I can attest to the amount of confusion surrounding Moon Mining in Wormholes and High sec after Lifeblood, lots of people were very mad!

[Xenos_Monith_Maulerant]

This to me sounds like an easy solution to the issue.

[Servanda]

Honestly having a fatigue cap that is this high in many cases just results in people not being able to play the game for days should they hit it, which in most cases I know happened by mistake, so a mechanic that prevents people from taking part in the game for days is honestly realy bad designe. Preventing rapid cap movement can also be achieved with way lower caps.

Puting it at around 12 hours would for example result in mostly the same max speed during long distance travel since the red timer will be as long as waiting down the blue timer (which often is the fastest option during longer (+3 jumps) routes)

[Ganja_Wheels]

A month after making a great change that everyone loves, you announce this rubbish and go downhill. You clearly don’t play the game Fozzie, when are you going to stop ruining it for us all?

[Faenir_Antollare]

Well, a little more than a “consideration” might be in order, this is a ■■■■ change that just complicates matters more in an already very complicated game.

[Kenneth_Feld]

@Servanda

Honestly having a fatigue cap that is this high in many cases just results in people not being able to play the game for days should they hit it, which in most cases I know happened by mistake, so a mechanic that prevents people from taking part in the game for days is honestly realy bad designe. Preventing rapid cap movement can also be achieved with way lower caps.

Puting it at around 12 hours would for example result in mostly the same max speed during long distance travel since the red timer will be as long as waiting down the blue timer (which often is the fastest option during longer (+3 jumps) routes)

You are absolutely correct
Once you get past a few hours for your orange timer, your blue timer really doesn’t matter, you have to logout and probably wait until the next day anyway.

Few exceptions for when you might be moving and don’t plan on using that pilot for a few days, but I would think that is rare

[Bjor_Ambramotte]

@CCP_Fozzie That would be super cool! I think most people would put down the pitchforks if you let us keep the new fuel bay total range that you gave us for Lifeblood. I think even the JF guys wouldn’t rage so hard with that tweak, everyone in my alliance was pumped about not having to pull into the fuel pump as often. If the stated goal is to help out ice miners why not let us cap pilots keep this (apparently unintentional) buff that we got a few weeks ago.

Thanks for considering!

[FT_Diomedes]

If you are going to do this, at least get rid of racial isotopes.

Also, jump fatigue still encourages players to log off rather than keep playing the game. It’s a terrible mechanic. You should just change the map to accomplish the same goals.

[CCP_Lebowski]

@Pier_Rin

i hate those half ass solutions you guys come up with. If it was suppost to be in the life blood expension, it should have been in there. Dont release patches that are not finished or not tested. This makes the game not playable.

Would you have preferred that we delayed Lifeblood by a few weeks to a month, impacting all the pilots who don’t use Capitals but were waiting for the rest of the feature set? Or would it have been better to delay the reduction in Isotope volume, thus impacting anyone attempting Reactions post patch?

I’m not at all trying to get at you here, just illustrate that sometimes, there are no perfect choices. in this case we chose to not endanger the quality of the finished features and push one to the next release to allow us to deliver the rest. This wasn’t a perfect solution, but none are.

I hope this makes some sense.

[Jalon_Kaladreel]

Guys. Seriously. Chill, and let the market adapt, it is still rebalancing to the massive moon change lol.

Don’t screw up what was really a great change for everyone.

If you REALLY need to make ice product economy adjustments to balance, do it elsewhere, don’t mess up what you just fixed.

[theRaptor]

The only people I’ve seen get max jump fatigue are newbies who don’t understand how jump fatigue works (great tutorials btw CCP).

It is a mechanic that punishes newbies for the sins of super pilots of yesteryear.

[Juvir_Shadowborne]

I have to parrot some of the comments already stated here. The reduction in isotope size just feels like a giant tease at this point to Capital and Jump Freighter pilots. Now that extra fuel is basically being negated. In the process, the market for isotopes has fluctuated up and down before and after both sets of changes. Is this really necessary? Why do you hate capital pilots so much?

[Luna_TheMoonrider]

Just, btw guys, stop blaming the messenger.

Don’t attack @CCP_Fozzie personally, he’s maybe on the team that design the change, but a whole team is behind this change, and attacking one dev is not cool.

Game Design is not the result of ONE dev (thanks god!), but the result of multiple hours/days of meetings, ideas and so on from multiple people…
I don’t like the change, but seriously, don’t attack a dev personally because he’s the messenger.

If you want to blame someone, blame the team, or “the devs” in general

I also blame the com team for bad communication <3

[Gorion_Wassenar]

In a specific regard I think knowing that the fuel bay increase would also be part of a significant increase in consumption within a few weeks would have been nice. You inadvertently set the new expectation of ease us use to what it is now and anything moving away from that is seen as a negative.

[CCP_Lebowski]

@Gorion_Wassenar

In a specific regard I think knowing that the fuel bay increase would also be part of a significant increase in consumption within a few weeks would have been nice.

There’s no disagreement there, and we take full responsibility for that. Major expansions are an incredibly busy time here and this one slipped through the cracks, sorry about that

[theRaptor]

@CCP_Lebowski

Or would it have been better to delay the reduction in Isotope volume, thus impacting anyone attempting Reactions post patch?

Yes. Isotope use was already massively reduced so keeping the volume the same would still have made reactions cost much less in input shipping costs. Like do you guys actually play the game and know how much time was taken up moving inputs from the JF drop off citadel/station to towers?

Or maybe, ya know, actually communicate what the change was about instead of leading cap pilots into thinking we actually got a nice QOL change for once.

[Zesty_Memes]

ughh no

[Junkin_Trunkes]

Let jump freighters, the things designed only for hauling use any topes. With all the tech that was spent designing them surely they could figure out how to let them use other topes, or maybe a bonus to racial topes but still use other topes at a penalty (like using E-85 in your car, still works but less efficient)

[Paul_Brinkhoff]

Why dont you increase the economic friction of spamming citadels everywhere by making them use fuel for teathering ?

Basicly you reduced the need for fuel blocks for reactions and plan to further reduce it by phasing out POSs entirely, which is fine. The point that doesnt make any sense for me is why you now try to balance it by making totally fine things bad, instead of adjusting the new stuff that is causing the problems in the first place.

The economic friction caused by this change for the big guys will be barely noticable due to good enough infrastructure to compensate anyways.