Delay Local

Its ok, you haven’t offended me.

You just aren’t making sense.

I mean the answer would offend you and i have no interest offending anyone.

Nothing you said has offended me.
Its offtopic, irrelevant, senseless and pointless, but not offensive.

Because PVE happens in SITES. Sites publicly available. Sites everyone sees on his scanner without probes and Dscanning.

Hunter enters system => warps to largest Asteroid Belt => Bäm, Mining Barge done. So PvE’ers have to constantly DscanDscanDscan to have ANY chance of spotting an agressor. Now imagine a Rorqual which needs intel 5+ jumps earlier? Now what to do against if the Hunter is immune to Dscan? Is the point clear now?

For PvP, you are completely right, but 0.0 is PvE too and you would screw everyone over that ever does PvE in 0.0. Point clear now? Any further questions?

From the effort, you are now looking at wormhole effort for PvE.

Your prey NEEDS to have a chance at escape, because PvE ships are by default gimped for PvE. Now imagine you would be put in a fight by CCP the second you login, without the tools to handle combat and without the option to escape. Would you find that fair? No, you wouldn’t.

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:rofl:

Yep, just as in W-space except much better moon goo. So why does 0.0 get the much better moon goo AND carebear Local?

Now I’m not a big fan of this D-scan spamming so I eliminated it in the remake I did:

Now imagine a Rorqual which needs intel 5+ jumps earlier?

Don’t go into siege mode and you won’t have this problem.

Now what to do against if the Hunter is immune to Dscan?

Same thing they do in W-space. Watch overview, mine in groups, try and be awkward to kill and often die.

Now in my remake, cloaked ships appear. They’re not identified or targetable, but you do see them in your expanded Overview.

Your prey NEEDS to have a chance at escape, because PvE ships are by default gimped for PvE.

Whilst I agree, Eve is a game designed around PvP that has dubious consent. That means small gang roamers need to have unwilling targets.

Where should those unwilling targets be? Low Sec to some degree, W-space to a greater degree and 0.0 space most of all.
0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. If you don’t like danger, you don’t have to live there.

Now, you need to watch your overview in PvE so you can see them there.
You should be refreshing D scan every 10 seconds anyway, so you’ll see gankers there.
In my remake, ships in D scan range will automatically appear on your overview.

It’s super easy to pre-align with any big ship and small ships can escape in other ways.

How many chances do you want in what is supposed to be the most dangerous part of Eve?

Having said that, I don’t think miners should be expected to have their eyes glued to D-scan & overview for 4 hours straight. I gave another suggestion for that.

Just that you can not hotdrop a 500+ Loki fleet on top of you if you are in a WH. WH’s are dangerous, but saying 0.0 is save is utter nonsense. I have no Idea about the moons though. That is beyond me.

Yeah, don’t ever use the rorq cause you won’t ever have reliable intel. Another rorqual redesign, yes?

Again, enemy forces in WH’s can’t reach the mass they can reach in 0.0. WH’s are easier to defend (in Worst case scenarios). 0.0 has the constant cyno threat. WH’s are isolated and you do have easy access to intel by scanning and sitting on a WH. It’s not as easy as local is, I agree, but you can have pretty much spot on intel with a bit of scanning. Just that, in WH, you have to deploy one character per WH and in 0.0, you have to deploy one character to each system.

Unwilling targets, I agree, but unwilling doesn’t mean “No chance to fight or run”. There always NEEDS to be a realistic chance to escape.

Which would be perfectly fine if the overview would be a good tool for that. Just that it isn’t. Overview is by far the most inconvenient and clunky system in Eve… and Dscan is less than ideal since it won’t let you remove given ships from it…

No, thank you. Any replacement for local must include the options you need to escape from fights, else PvE must be buffed to ridiculous reward levels (which is so much NOT what the game needs). These options shouldn’t be as hidden as possible and they shouldn’t be clunky to use.

I mean, ask yourself how watching your Overview is different from local? Right, there is MUCH more information you have to sort through (or you have to constantly switch). It’s either that or a “one char always has the overview you need open” which then would be the same as local.

All the other “problems” with the local would still be there, just that you made it much more complex and difficult for someone not aware of the options.

Well, now that I think about that. Maybe it wouldn’t be as bad :smiley:

Just that it wouldn’t fix any problem with the local. :smiley:

Its pointless to argue whether Player NS or WHs are “safer”.

In both, risk is introduced by other players, not the sector itself, or its mechanics.

Delayed Local in Player NS would have zero impact on WHs, except perhaps population shift to or from it, which is unlikely to be much.

Why are you people so jealous of sov null? :open_mouth:

Eh, thats not how hunting works.
Hunters do see belts/anoms and can probe sigs or you directly if fit for that, but they dont know which one you are at, if at any, without directed d-scanning, possibly probing, exploratory flying there etc.

Involves a lot of heuristic guess-work, and process of elimination.

Its not nearly as simple as “fly to biggest belt and explode barge”.


To use the IRL hunting analogy, instant Local currently means the hunter enters a forest and immediately knows who else is in that forest, and the others in the forest immediately know who entered it. (Afaik, the prey gets the Local intel when the hunter activates the gatejump, so a few seconds before the hunter gets the Local intel upon actual arrival in the system)

This makes the hunters job easier, cos they dont have to waste time checking empty systems, and the preys job easier cos they can immidietly warp to safe, hide or start arranging defence.

In a Delayed Local environment, neither hunter or prey will know who is in the forest, until the delay expires. They will have to sniff with d-scan, probes, or use eyes/ears scouting/watching the forest and its entrypoints.

After the delay expires, the hunter will receive Local intel at the same second the prey there does.

Erm, that’s how Hunting miners currently works already. Delayed Local will reduce chances to escape further. I don’t know why you are willing to put a blind eye to it, but I guess you are just a bad hunter then. Bring a gang of 2 and you can instawarp to the 2 biggest belts.

Bring a gang of 3-5 and you can cover all (worthy) anomalies in like 2-3 Minutes. Local is currently preventing you from getting kills with an easy time like this.

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Salvos does not take into account a number of factors.

In terms of mining belts it is pretty obvious, but when you have poor truesec then there are less sites which makes it a lot easier to chose the right one and smaller less able entities tend to end up there so the impact of the delay is much greater on them. Of course large heavily used systems with high trusec will likely be farmed at a greater rate so can be easy to get something.

So what do you warp to, Sanctums, Haves and Foresaken Hubs, it is easy actually…

If he was to ask about moon mining belts that is even easier, you just find out when they are ready to be harvested and then it is easy. Of course that is a bit more effort than most are prepared to do, but…

But he will not listen…

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Local is currently making it easier for hunters, because they can immediately see if there is someone in system to hunt. Without immediate Local intel, they will have to check everything to see if anyone is there.

You arent understanding the flipside of the same coin, on the part of hunters.

That is not changed by delayed Local.

Nor does it change the capacity of prey to observe/d-scan them on entry, or on approach.

Its quite simple:

Delayed Local intel, means neither hunter nor prey will be instantly informed of the presence of the other.

Both share the burden of the change, equally.

What is changed is the capacity of the target to warp off early enough.

Yes it does cause not every site is in DSCAN range of the gates. Delaying local is equal to reducing the time a PvE’er has to remove himself from danger. That is the reality of the situation and your dishonesty about it does not help your cause.

Just that they don’t cause a hunter doesn’t suffer from it. He can still warp to the belts/sites because they are static locations. The worst thing that the hunter might suffer from is to warp to an empty site.

New structures that they will add, observatories, that will probably shake things up a bit. I hope.

Just as it increases the time necessary for a hunter to ascertain if there is anyone in the system to hunt.

The burden is shared.

just that the hunter doesn’t need to do it, he can shoot first (warp to the site) and ask questions later (see if anyone is in local).

It absolutely isn’t.

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Hunters can already warp to whatever belt/anom they want.

That is not changed.

Hunters are as burdened by delayed local, as prey.

The hunter loses the capacity to immediately know if there are targets in the system, and the prey loses the capacity to immediately know if there are aggressors in the system.