I am an advocate for making cloaked ships d-scan detectable (but wont break cloak).
Imo cloaked ships should not be d-scan immune, even now, and regardless of what other changes might occur. That they are untargettable while cloaked is more than enough equity. The d-scan immunity is superfluous on top of that.
And I say that as a guy that uses a great deal of cloaked ships.
Cloaks are OP in this regard, but Im more than willing to lose that OPness, even against my own interests. Frankly I feel dirty using them.
These nullbears wonāt accept any nerf to 0.0.
They are ignoring the fact that most people in the thread think Local in 0.0 should be removed/delayed.
They keep dodging questions.
Where is the risk (unless you disable yourself for 5 mins)?
Why should you be able to make 170m an hour, every hour, without multiboxing risk-free?
Their role is to catch people and they do it better than any other class as long as local is not delayed. if local was delayed then the best ship class to catch people with would be cloaky t3s or stealth bombers because of the lack of targeting delay after decloak
Iām not worried about inties, post-delay.
They are fast and good for pointing, but easily dealt with by any sub-cap combat class. Frigates/destroyers tear them apart, even in numbers.
Frankly, Id be more worried about point fit Combat Recons with d-scan immunity, or Force Recons, in a delayed Local environment.
T3s certainly also are a huge threat, are now and will remain so.
In any case, as I said I would strongly suggest d-scan immunity is removed from cloaked ships, no matter what else. Its totally unnecessary on top of the untargetability cloaking provides.
Im the most worried about ccp delaying/deleting local and making other changes to ābalance itā but im 99% sure something would go wrong in the end and the server would be fcked up for a long time lol.
Yeah, but I think its safe to say, that one thing most of us can agree on, is cloaked ships should be d-scan detectable. This is long overdue, and a lynchpin for any consideration of Local changes, or Observation Array implementation.
D-scan immunity on cloaked ships has to go, no matter what.
Imo, CCP should do this already tomorrow.
If CCP is serious about Observation Arrays, I think Local changes and the OA should be implemented simultaneously, to compensate each other.
I think its very hard to justify OAs, if Local intel is not simultaneously changed to delayed, or removed. The two together stand to be very OP and seriously impair aggression.
Im quite concerned about some of the options CCP has proposed for the OA, as just adding even more intel in favor of a defender.
The problem with OAs basically returning Local intel to what it was, either from a delayed or removed status, is that it makes the Local intel change redundant.
Its counter-productive, probably, to replace Local intel, with a OA structure or service module on existing Upwell structure.
Id much prefer that OAs provide services that are not related to Local intel.
Things like revealing cloaked ships, map scrambling, or limiting hostile d-scanning. Preferably so that any one system can only run one of those services at once.
Because removing dscan immunity without changing other things would be a pure nerf to cloaky ships, which i dont want. IMO there is no problem with cloaks or local, my problem is being AFK and safe while in hostile space
Yes, its a pure nerf to cloaked ships.
But a substantiated one.
If you want D-scan immunity, use a Combat Recon.
There is no reason why cloaks should offer both untargetability AND d-scan immunity.
You can still afk all you want in a cloaked ship.
Being d-scan detectable does not make you targettable, unless someone someone flies within 2km of you, which is practically impossible in a system that spans AUs in every direction.
I fly a LOT fof cloaked ships, including to sneak up on people while cloaked before engaging. I have no problem with them seeing me on d-scan, if they remember to do so. Sure, it hurts my odds, but seriously, d-scan immunity is OP on cloaked ships. Iām never going to stand down on that.
Also to point out, that the cloak on Force Recon effectively makes the D-scan immunity on Combat Recons redundant.
Been awhile since I thought about that, but now I remember why it never made sense and something there always irked me,
A Force Recon is d-scan immune/untargettable while cloaked, whereas the Combat Recon is just d-scan immune.
As discussed above, point fit Combat Recons would be the greatest risk in a delayed Local environment, and if cloaked ships can be detected by d-scan.
Inties/Force Recon/Cloaked ships would be detectable via d-scan, but in absence of, or delayed Local, Combat recons would be undetectable unless probed, watched on entry, seen in overview or the Local intel delay expires.
Yes, we understand you two want a safe NS for ratting/mining.
You want Local intel as is, so that no matter where you are in system, you see a hostile/unknown appear instantly (when they initiate gate jump from another system) in Local intel, or through WH, so you can react before they even arrive.
