This statement highlights you don’t know anything about risk. Risk is not solely determined by the time involved.
Moon mining was semi passive income. Moon incomes have changed drastically. This indicates you are completely clueless.
Again, truly refreshing to have a proper conversation on this instead of dealing with the likes of the above. ^^ 
What this means is that a corp with say 100bn isk is less defenceless vs an equivalent-sized corp with 1000bn isk.
You can still lose on # of ships unless you can put out about 100bn of ships yourself.
I admit that I have 0 idea on what has driven down rewards in WH’s, but somehow it happened? It used to be different from what I remember.
The only thing I’m aware of is that escalation bosses drop much less blue loot than they used to. But it’s still the main source of income.
The tldr is that it’s save because player’s made it save and that should have it’s rewards. That was the entire point of 0.0. Claim the space, defend it, reap rewards.
An incremental reward bonus, yes. Not a huge one. And there should be a risk to match else you just get alliances that no-one can compete with.
If I put this to a formula, it would be something like:
Avg ISK earned in 4 consecutive hours = 150m + (50 * danger)
… where currently, danger for HS = 1 and W-space = 5.
0.0 is not save by default and that is something a lot of people conveniently forget.
True, a lot of the imbalance is with the giant alliances, as I’ve said previously. An increase in taxes depedent on the size of the corp/alliance would seem to be the only way to balance that.
Imagine 60 people in your system + NPC targets and warpouts. Now think about how likely it is to see an engaging enemy within that mess.
Sorted for distance, you should have no more than 6 ‘safe’ ships within 30km. So anything else should stick out.
You can put blues on a different tab too.
newbies rarely have a clue on what the overview can do and how it should be set up for given situations.
It’s better than them being oblivious to cloaked ship possibilities and the need for D scan spamming IMHO.
I could work with the overview, but the 14.3AU range is just… Sorry, but that’s imho way too much advantage for the already advantaged hunter.
They have far more advantage than that already in W-space, ie no Local, cloaked ships and manual D-scanning.
And I don’t think W-space is too dangerous. Or needs higher rewards.
Just that 0.0 needs to be as dangerous, or needs lower rewards.
I don’t get why it’s necessary to make things easier for Hunters and more difficult for the already “easy targets” a lot of them are looking for.
Because it’s really really hard to find good small-gang PvP in this game. Considering it’s about 3x more fun/exciting to do than anything else, it’s a bit of a problem.
And because the reward/risk ratio for 0.0 is off the scale.
So we can solve two problems with this change.
Yes, it’s stupidly easy to get a kill with a cloaked interdictor, and that’s why I’ve made cloaked ships appear (unidentified) on Overview. Not sure what to do about HICs but, if you’re paying attention, you should see them coming.
Yes, cynos in PvP are stupid. They’re relatively easy to nerf.
Why 0.0 “needs to earn less isk” and why “hunters should have it easy, bro!”?
In case I haven’t made it clear, hunters should be able to find targets much easily, particularly in 0.0, but killing those targets should be generally harder.
0.0 needs a much lower return/risk ratio. Lowsec needs a much higher one. And obviously, 0.0 should be less safe than Lowsec.
I agree that intel from local is (too) easy to maintain, but remove it and you are looking at an increase in numbers needed. 0.0 usually has the manpower to deploy a spare alt per important gate, and it would still be almost as save as it is at the moment
Lame but better than the current reward/risk disparity. In my experience, W-space dwellers rarely do this anyway.
If it’s a real problem, mute both gates and WHs. There’s no sound in space… 
I really try my best. Thank you too for the polite discussion.
That is absolutely true, but what it also means is that, if you are the corp with 1000bn in the hole, it will be quite hard to squeeze you. If you are such a corp, WH’s become less dangerous (especially for ships that can hold their own for a while).
I think it might also be related to the T3 prices somewhat? I recall that Tengus were like 350 on the hull alone, now it’s 180 or so, but yes, I don’t understand WH Nerfs.
Well, a VNI earns 240 mil in 4 hours. A rattle earns about 360 in that.
That’s not really too much if you put 0.0 at a 2-3. As mentioned, Supers and Rorquals earn more, and in the case of supers, they could probably need a nerf. The rorqual though… (and please, a rorqual without the core doesn’t even outmine a hulk so it doesn’t even earn any concerning isk ).
But making easy targets more easier to kill is not the solution. It’s the complete opposite. Stop the solo hurr durr pvp, group up and force people to PvP. I know that is not convenient, but asking CCP to nerf intended behaviour (make your spave save), when it’s your job to make the space less save (attack them!) is something I don’t really agree with.
That is probably what I would do, but then I have to add the intel to every single tab (because it is that important) and for some tabs (stations + gates or PvE with structures), it will become a problem. Imagine you have NPC’s in a site, you need/want to check for a specific structure (like you often do in escalations etc.), you are looking at a ton of stuff and you might not see it.
I am partially OK with that, but especially with systems of 30+ people ratting/mining, well. here’s 30 more items on the overview and that already exceeds 90% of the space I have on the overview. 
Pretty much anything is better than constant Dspam
I don’t really agree with “as dangerous”. Both places have their own risks and in both, you can put effort in to make it a lot more save. That’s what 0.0 Alliances have done and that’s what some WH corps usually do too. I think they still earn a lot of cash (otherwise, I could hardly explain that some WH entities can drop Vendettas on other people). If 0.0 needs a nerf, then it’s more for supers and maybe carriers only.
Sorry, but dropping on a lone Vexor/rattle is not particularly “good” content. It’s fun (absolutely!), yes, but it is “easy” content. Not good one.
And I absolutely don’t agree with that notion. Hunters should never get to kill PvE-Bros if the PvE-Bros do not make mistakes. Why? Because it’s not a fight, it’s a slaughter that is just one sided and unbalanced by design.
I understand that this is not what hunters are looking for, obviously, but the Hunter vs easy target fight is not a fight. The real content is “Get away or get caught” (or “get him or not” for the hunters) and as much as Hunters don’t like it, not getting caught is the PvE guy winning the battle and he needs to have a realistic chance to do just that.
Not sure I agree with everything here. I agree that lowsec is pretty unsave and earning isk is hard there. Lowsec has some pretty lucrative things though (like fishing for Level5s and scanning) and if people would get themselves together (the same way they do it in nullsec), they would all have a better time. I’ve heard FW isn’t unlucrative by design either, but that the other site can make your returns go down (the same way as organized groups can in 0.0).
My TLDR would be this:
I don’t agree with nerfing space simply because players have made it save or buffing space simply because players don’t want to make it save. Intel is a significant problem (in that it’s too easy to maintain), and I will easily agree with the notion that supers are OP, but other than that, well, I really don’t see it.
If they are far away, then perhaps.
In anycase, you can return to recover them later.
Drones are just one of many possible weapon systems, and yes, carry this element as part of their mechanics.
VNI warps out faster than even a Fleet Issue Stabber.
VNIs, as their weapon system is drones, can also fly aligned at all times, whereas FIS cannot without severly crippling damage application.
So yes, if you are having trouble escaping in a VNI, then you are not playing very well.
Delayed Local is the issue/topic here.
Not VNIs, or any other ships stats.
Quoting for unintentional irony… You are Trolling mate, simple as that…
With an oversized prop mod fitted? That is why you have no idea mate…
This entire exchange has proved beyond any doubt that you have no idea at all about the game, in your stupid attempts to make digs at me you exposed your ignorance. I have you marked as a 100% troll, the same definition I have for Jonah.
No irony there.
You brought up VNIs, not I.
I simply pointed out that if you are getting caught in a VNI, of all ships, then you are doing it wrong.
Now that that is out of the way, we can return to the topic of Delayed Local.
Any competent hunter will not only kill your drones, he will also kill any Existing MTU (simply to inflict loss).
A set of T2 drones = 10 mil
A set of Faction drones = 25 mil
A MTU = ~10 mil.
Loosing an MTU and 5 Faction heavies is 30% of your ships cost. That’s not insignificant.
That is probably the most unrealistic post anyone has ever made on this subject. A VNI warps in 4 seconds. A VNI with AB on warps in 25 (!) seconds.
You can’t just fly aligned because your VNI would either die (it needs it’s orbitting to stay alive) or would be out of drone range in about 70 seconds (tops).
No, your post is totally and utterly false. And you should feel bad for writing it. You sir, you absolute “won” your dunce cap for today.
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Too bad, too sad.
Such is the life of a drone ship and if you risk placing an MTU.
Drones are not specific to VNIs either, many classes have them as a secondary weapon system.
Thats incorrect.
Turn off the AB.
Yes, you can, and you can fly aligned to different celestials and/or bookmarks.
Its accurate. You just dont want to admit that.
In anycase, this thread is not about fail-piloting a VNI.
Its about Delayed Local.
And it’s a loss if you lose them. Abandon your drones 5 times and you’ve lost the equivalent of your ship. That is “Perfectly save” you say? Dunce Cap.
Turn of the AB takes 10 seconds (in worst case) and you still carry the inertia from your orbit that will prevent immediate warp off. Dunce Cap 2.
Dunce Cap 3.
You’ve given us the VNI as an example on how bad your knowledge is. You want to blame us for educating you on the topic YOU are talking about?
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I didnt bring up VNIs. Drac did.
Not my problem if you are bad at flying them, nor is it relevant to the topic.
Thread is about Delayed Local as a sector mechanic change, not a ship change.
If you want VNIs buffed or changed, do that in a thread on that.
Didn’t say that. I’ve said:
and that will remain just true till the end of eve forums. 
Enjoy the cap. Make sure to keep it away from water and don’t feed it after midn…
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Its you two wearing the dunce caps.
If you want me to teach you how to fly a VNI properly, contract me a PLEX.
Otherwise, return to topic, which is Delayed Local, not fail-flying a VNI.
Why are you arguing over something that you have no clue about? Man you clearly never flew a vni or anything similar to it and all your statements are wrong. Just admit it… @Salvos_Rhoska
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This thread is not about VNIs, or fail-flying them whether by me, you, Drac or anyone else.
Delayed Local, mechanically, has the same effect on both aggressor and defender.
Both receive the Local intel, once the delay has expired.
A new ship will have to wait just as long to receive Local intel on players currently in the system, as players currently in the system will have to wait to receive Local intel on the new arrival.
They will receive that Local intel, simultaneously, just as they do now with instant Local intel, except not instantly upon presence in system.
This whole thread looks like the weak managing to keep a discussion about their death sentence going, which helps them prolonge said death sentence.
Fact of the matter is that those who always were prepared, who did not rely on local, would dojust fine. I know I would. Those who did, though, who always sucked at taking care of their safety, are completely against it.
Someone fill me in on what I am missing here.
Disclaimer: i do not care personally, because i rely dscan and my eyes, and this thread achieves nothing in these context of Change anyway.
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Any feasible implementation of delayed local outside of WH space must be proceeded with a significant rework of the intel and probing mechanics. Requiring players to spam-click d-scan to be able to see incoming threats with the current systems would be asinine.
Cloaked ships should not be d-scan immune.
That should be changed no matter what.
Its always been OP.
Untargetability is more than enough equity. The d-scan immunity ontop is just stupid.
As to Combat Recons being d-scan immune, watch your gates.
In fact you said on the forums that you have never gone to 0.0 and here you are opening up and being full of yourself about putting a delay in local when you have never ever operated there and used that ship type either as your ignorance on its fit and use is evident to all.
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This thread is not about cloakies, it’s about Delayed Local
→Insert copypasta here
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The prop mode has a cycle. That cycle has to finish before the effects stop. So it isn’t that simple.
Correct.
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