Delay Local

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ag3nt_Jita

1)) You asked(and tried making fun of it) why i do more pve and i answered it
2) you are a clueless and dishonest to us and to yourself too

1. I, in no way, made fun of your language skills. But the excuse you made that language skills drove you to PvE, is not a valid one.
2. I know more than you think.
3. As above, you said you can survive with delayed Local intel just fine. So that matter is tabled and done with.

[Ag3nt_Jita]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I, in no way, made fun of your language skills. But the excuse you made that language skills drove you to PvE, is not a valid one.
I know more than you think.
As above, you said you can survive with delayed Local intel just fine. So that matter is tabled and done with.

1. you tried and you lie again
2. all i know about you is what you show to me, and you proved you dont know much about pve/pvp
3. i can survive but i would like to enjoy the game and making it more time consuming is not a good way.

edit: i didnt say language limitations drove me to pve. i said i do more pve than pvp because of my language limitations.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ag3nt_Jita

1. you tried and you lie again
2. all i know about you is what you show to me, and you proved you dont know much about pve/pvp
3. i can survive but i would like to enjoy the game and making it more time consuming is not a good way.

1. Look, bro, Your personal english skills have nothing to do with EVE mechanics. EVE doesnt care how well you speak English, and neither do I. Eve has hundreds of languages.
2. I know more than you think.
3. You have basically lost no ships doing PvE, thanks to immediate Local intel. I understand you think delayed Local makes that harder, but it really doesnt if you use the precautions you listed as using, and also makes a hunters job harder reciprocally.

[Alexi_Stokov]

Why is it the PVErs have to get good with your change or leave NS and go back to HS, yet you as the PVPr don’t have to get good with out changing an entire mechanic of local? You love asking the PVEr are you bad?!? I guess this means you as the PVPr is bad

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ag3nt_Jita

you are a joke

@Ag3nt_Jita

you are a dishonest, clueless dickhead

@Ag3nt_Jita

how retarded or how big of a fail you are

@Ag3nt_Jita

now you can report me to mommy like a child. get me banned and continue looking like an idiot, bro.

I’m not going to reduce myself to your level.
You lost your points, and this is all you have left.

[Ag3nt_Jita]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I’m not going to reduce myself to your level.

You lost your points, and this is all you have left.

I love how you pick smaller parts of a message and react to only that. Keep lying and continue begging for a change instead of improving yourself.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ag3nt_Jita

I love how you pick smaller parts of a message and react to only that

Those parts are why you are not worth answering.
If you cant discuss issues in a decent, civil manner, you aren’t worth answering.
I’m not just going to overlook them as if those insults didn’t happen.
You wont get an answer out of me when you sink that low with nothing else.

[Ag3nt_Jita]

You tried to make fun of me, i answered the way you deserved it. Feel free to edit your posts now like you do all the time lol

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ag3nt_Jita

You tried to make fun of me

I in no shape or form made fun of you.

@Ag3nt_Jita

i answered the way you deserved it

Nothing I said deserved the abject insults you posted.
You did that, Not me.

Wtf makes you think you can insult me like you did above?

@Ag3nt_Jita

you are a dishonest, clueless dickhead repeating the same stupid thing over and over again

Seriously?

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

A successful PvP action against a PvEr should not depend on the PvEr making a mistake.

A successful PvP action should not be successful if the PvE player is doing everything right.

@Salvos_Rhoska

If anything, it should depend on the PvPer making the mistakes.

This makes literally no sense at all. The PvP player makes a mistake and still kills the PvE player? Sorry no.

@Salvos_Rhoska

A PvP fit is designed to engage in PvP.
A PvE fit is not.
It is rational the PvP fit should wreck the PvE fit.

Pretty sure nobody disputes this Salvos.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Delayed Local intel means both still get it, but on a more equal footing.

No. This has been gone over time-and-again. While the loss of information is equal, the effects on behavior is not.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Doesnt change your warp off time at all.

That is not what he was implying at all. You are like a non-sequitur bot.

Teckos: I walk to work.
Salvos: No, you carry your lunch!

The point is he’ll have less warning in which to try and warp off. You’ll have a greater likelihood of not being spotted and thus and easier time catching him. Everyone else gets this point in this thread.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Your awareness of interlopers, so as to warp, will have to rely on something other than Local intel, until the delay expires.

Yes…which is not as effective…thus making it less likely he’ll warp out in time unless PvE players come up with a new strategy…which is what everyone has been saying.

You are literally the only one who can’t see any of this.

[Kobran_Ruthless_Vaidrich]

@Salvos_Rhoska

How many times have you lost a ship to PvP while PvEing with those precautions in place?

You’re not supposed to lose PVE ships to PVP’ers unless you make a mistake.

Sorry you don’t like it but get over it.

[Dom_Arkaral]

I love how Salvos is still here arguing about stuff he has never experienced

The grr gons hat gons is stronk with him

E: he actually has 32.4% of all replies on here

[Nasar_Vyron]

@Teckos_Pech idk if you watched (or if it was even streamed) the sov roundtable, I straight up asked about the hacking of the OA to cause a pause/loop effect on local for a short duration to mask small gang movement or destruction during times of war to cause a blackout and they seemed to like the idea. So maybe it’ll go through? Maybe.

I also thought Fozzie’s joke about imagining a lone Concord Employee sitting staring at the monitors as they start to blink and malfunction.

[Nico_Boru]

INTEROGITIVE; What will the removal of local do to the comunication to players? Most of the players I talk to regularly are in local. As you can see I dabble in a bit of everything on here and ice it with a touch of trolling if I feel like it, local is most of the current fun as I get certain skills in line, ask questions to not so bitter vets, and get the general local news. (Translation-EVE is my social life right now due to RL complications.) Would there be replacement chanels? Would there be a big lumped sum chanel of all trade hubs? (Shudders at the thought of jita, hhhwwwwaaaakk-tooo, chat being lumped into my classy Dodixie chat.) Provided it went down in HS as well.

Also, there would be a HUGE increase of mobile depot and jet can adverts everywhere with out a local to wall spam in.

While youre all talking of content changes without local, Im thinking of what other subtle changes there would be.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Nasar_Vyron

Teckos_Pech idk if you watched (or if it was even streamed) the sov roundtable, I straight up asked about the hacking of the OA to cause a pause/loop effect on local for a short duration to mask small gang movement or destruction during times of war to cause a blackout and they seemed to like the idea. So maybe it’ll go through? Maybe.

Cool…good work. Thank you for posting this.

@Nasar_Vyron

I also thought Fozzie’s joke about imagining a lone Concord Employee sitting staring at the monitors as they start to blink and malfunction.

Heh…poor guy.

I have to reiterate @Salvos_Rhoska ability to unit people who have divergent views on local, intel and cloaking in this thread. It is positively Trumpian*.

*I don’t mean that as an insult…well not literally. Trump’s views on trade, protectionism, and tariffs have pretty much united U.S. economists of all political stripes…“Don’t do it, bad idea.” Same thing here. I can get behind delaying local if and only if there is a way for NS entities to “claw” back local intel or some variation of local intel. I am in favor of shaking up the current “meta”…but also cognizant of @Ag3nt_Jita’s point that it could lead to all sorts of downstream problems.

[Loki_Orkund]

@Mingja

So your definition is: “You can run away with some ships in most cases, so it’s safe”… Urm?

You can run away with every ship not in siege mode. You get 30+ seconds.
Unless they jump immediately to visible sigs, and you happen to be at one, then you get 15s. Still plenty of time.

Safe is relative in Eve. HS is considered safe but ships get ganked all the time. You don’t get to define what safe means.

Non-Consensual doesn’t mean “you can’t run away”.

Actually, that’s exactly what it means. If you could always run away, all combat is going to be consensual.

You just choose to not bother with the effort needed.

Maybe if I’d spent 5+ years of my life and maybe $1000 playing this game.

But I didn’t, so no.

It’s not Nullsecs fault that players don’t manage to do what big alliances have already done in null.

You must be the only player outside those big alliances who think they deserve their ridiculous advantages.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

A successful PvP action should not be successful if the PvE player is doing everything right.

Exactly.
PvEr success should depend on the PvPer making a mistake (of which their are many possible)

@Teckos_Pech

The PvP player makes a mistake and still kills the PvE player?

Thats the exact opposite of what I said.

@Teckos_Pech

While the loss of information is equal, the effects on behavior is not.

I have not disputed effects on behavior is different.
Both will instead have to use other functions/sources of intel available to them, as hunters and prey respectively, until the delay expires.

@Teckos_Pech

The point is he’ll have less warning in which to try and warp off.

If he relies solely on immediate Local intel, yes.

@Teckos_Pech

thus making it less likely he’ll warp out in time unless PvE players come up with a new strategy…

Correct.
Relying solely on immediate Local intel will no longer be possible for either hunter or prey.

However, once the delay expires, all characters in the system will receive delayed Local intel, simultaneously. So it will still be provided, just not immediately.

[Nana_Skalski]

Russians cant Local, cant even chat.

r/Eve - PSA: Due to the Russian government blocking all AWS IPs, russian users...

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I have not disputed effects on behavior is different.

Both will instead have to use other functions/sources of intel available to them, as hunters and prey respectively, until the delay expires.

Yes and these other methods are inferior. Hence the claim that the PvE players will face a disadvantage relative to the status quo.

@Salvos_Rhoska

If he relies solely on immediate Local intel, yes.

No, in general too.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Correct.

Relying solely on immediate Local intel will no longer be possible for either hunter or prey.

No in general. If using these other methods were superior they’d use them now vs. using local and delaying local would be no big deal.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

Hence the claim that the PvE players will face a disadvantage relative to the status quo.

That has always been understood as the purpose.
The current status quo favors PvErs too much vs hunters.
“See unknown in immediate Local Intel → warp to safe”

The proposed delayed local towards rationalizing that is not a “hidden” effect, its deliberate, and also reciprocally disadvantages hunters, albeit in a different way.

@Teckos_Pech

If using these other methods were superior they’d use them now vs. using local and delaying local would be no big deal.

They don’t use them now, because they don’t have to, thanks to immediate Local intel.

Immediate Local intel is superior, and makes those other options unnecessary.

That doesn’t mean they aren’t still usable with delayed Local intel.