Salvos and I get on, we got a bit heated because I reacted to him telling me I did not know how to use a VNI when I was trying to explain to him the vulnerabilities of the VNI, he also ridiculed some Whale hunting we did when I pointed out that this was the game and most people who hunted would of course like it easier, but it was the game.
I hope that he steps back a bit and takes in the bigger picture…
I understand but how are you ever going to progress the discussion if there is no firm basis for it?
Have you been instant hot dropped? Yes/No. Once you have you realize why I said that I would not be in any rush to play that game. It is a counter to that power projection, apart from the AFK part of that gameplay I think it is fairly well balanced.
As you stated earlier, you do that now on interlopers in your system, whom you are aware of due to immediate Local intel.
See what I mean?
I refuse to accept that Player NS will collapse due to simply changing immediate Local intel to Delayed Local intel.
To accept that, I would have to accept that people are really so lazy and complacent as to not to be able to adapt. I wont do that.
PS Kobran called me an “ignorant imbecile”. Note who you are dealing with,
He is obstinate and suffers from a bit of tunnel vision, but can be reasoned with, and he has excellent capabilities in drilling down on detail. I think he has become focused on part of the equation, perhaps developed by a dislike of botting which we all share, and is not looking at the Empire game, just like Loki who is a wormholer.
A lot of people don’t really understand the arms race in 0.0, the Goons are so far ahead of everyone else, and this change will kill people even trying to keep up with their current level of force. This surprises me in one sense about Salvos because he has realised just how strong the Goons are in terms of this, but he has not realised that the Goons would have no issues dealing with this. Personally I don’t like the idea of defnining the game as a whole on what the Goons do…
That will become a lot more difficult, you do realise that by the time we know an event is happening with the delayed local, the attacker will have likely killed their victim and got safe. Sigh…
That is where you have the disagreement.
Steady on with that aggressive thought, it is not lazyness and complacent, it is being totally unable, just look at Provi as an example.
He does not get why you will not step back and think it through, step back a bit and think about it.
I agree. Changes like this only hurt the less established player blocks.
The Roqual industrial core is another prime example of this in action. Removing the ships ability to escape means small alliances basically cannot use this module and the large alliances have no problem because of how easily they can be defended.
Delayed local will have the exact same effect, in that smaller alliances will be servery stifled in their ISK generating ability while larger alliances will remain untouched.
I don’t agree he can be reasoned with though, 1300+ posts is strong evidence to suggest he does not have the ability to change his opinion. Therefore making it futile to debate with him.
Yes.
I dont believe Player NS will collapse due to delayed Local intel.
If that is the case, as you claim, then it smells of systemic rot, and that part of the structure should be ripped out asap, and replaced with sonething else (like delayed Local intel).
It is irrational that Player NS would so fatally depend on instant, free automatic Local intel.
Player NS will adapt and survive even with Delayed Local.
I think we have to go with that balance because the Goons carved out their use of it, they do lose a lot of Rorquals at times. People doing this in the prime time and who are enemies of the Goons or PL and are within 3 regions of their main areas are in a hiding to nothing and have to accept it is a no no in their prime time. Though Legacy do it, Yay!!!
I agree.
Keep explaining it like this and maybe he will take it in, but he is not ignorant or an imbecile.
Whereas I do.
Do you want all those people to just go bugger this and join the Goons? Because that is human nature.
If I wanted to Rorqual mine,I would join the Goons…
They are dependent on local as it is, and it has been explained why in this thread. You have to do better than saying you don’t like it.
And how do you adapt to that level of game balance change, this is akin to the Catalyst DPS change and no change to mining ships tanks for two and a half years, and people wonder why hisec is so dead… Sorry Salvos there is a balance at this point that works, not for everyone, but it works… There are excesses on one side, super ratting, and on the other side having to rely on people making mistakes or being stupid, but it works.
The rot I referred to above is exactly what led to this situation.
It should have been torn out years ago.
The only thing you can do is see for yourself.
Close local and do some PVE in null, see how long you survive. Delayed local is the same as no local for PVE because delayed information is equally as useless.
But this is the game now, you can’t just throw changes like this at it, the only way at this point is to set everything back to 0 and let me tell you now, I won;t be playing…
The probing mechanic would have to change for any change to local to work.
If Player NS will catastrophically collapse due to something as simple as replacing free, instant, automatic Local intel (the same as HS has), with delayed Local intel, then perhaps its time it does so.
Hopefully something better will rise from the ashes.
That is not a fair comparison as the hunters would have instant local
A lot of things would have to change, but then we are just redesigning null at that point.
What’s the point?
I am only playing for the fun of dropping my heavy stuff into fleet fights of max 500, it is glorious fun, and running after roaming gangs with snap form ups, for small gang stuff, both of which would be severely impacted by this suggestion. Sorry mate, it would kill it for me.
It’s close enough. The hunter doesn’t really need local intel anyway since they still have to pinpoint your location. Instant local just saves them searching empty systems, it has no bearing on how quickly they find a player.
I still think a hunter needs local, we warp tackle to certain anoms when we see people in local, however doing that system after system which is empty would be a most unpleasant experience, but that would be the case with this suggestion. Oh well…