Delay Local

[Jenn_aSide]

Was gonna post this in the poll thread but it got closed.

I think it’s a dumb question. Local is necessary because of how incredibly easy it is to find people in space with the tools and mechanics the game has (probes, easy to use dscan, PVE sites appearing either on probe scanner or via beacons visible on the overview). Wormhole space ONLY works because it limits some of these things (mainly ease of access, no gates and cynos in wormholes).

I tell all my wormhole buddies that I’ll support no local ink space when they support gates and cynos in wormhole space. You should hear the crickets chirping after I say that.

–

The funny thing is that this topic is full of a kind of prejudicial thinking. Many people who think this is a good idea are the kinds that look down on null sec players (“nullbears” and “f-1 monkey” is heard a lot from them). So they think taking away local will hurt them, while not understanding the game’s past, which would make them realize that the change they are championing will probably screw them more than the 'nullbear/f-1 monkeys" they hate.

It happened with dominion sov ("its gonna be great, it will open up null sec for small groups, TAKE THAT GOONS!), with the buffs to mining ships ("haw haw my mining barge has more EHP, TAKE THAT CODE!), it happened with Wardecs and the watchlist changes (LULZ, now wardeccers have to work for their kills, TAKE THAT MARMITE).

This will happen with local, because the common denominator for all of these ‘backfires’ is that people don’t act according to how you think they will, they find ways to take advantage of things even when the intent of a change is to curtail such advantages (not trying to be political here but this is why IRL attempts to help ‘poor people’ by taking from the rich ends up making rich people richer and poor people poorer in the long run)

[Rocket_Hellfire]

@Mingja

Just think this through

This was your first mistake… the ‘elite’ pvpers and CCP rarely do this. They both operate on pure bias and emotion. Not logic or forethought.

[Rocket_Hellfire]

Let’s get rid of the overview. It makes it too easy to target others and you show up on your target’s overview.

Let’s get rid of the map. It makes travel FAR too easy.

Let’s get rid of player/corp/alliance tags. Knowing who is friendly and who isn’t is just too much information.

Let’s get rid of stations. There’s just too much safety in them.

Let’s get rid of mining. Only carebears mine. And God knows they don’t deserve to exist. I can loot my ships/mods/ammo.

Let’s get rid of the login/out system. Your player stays online, in space 23/7, no matter what.

[Helt_Anajkt]

ccp eliminen el local, todos los jugadores debemos aprender y tener intuición

ccp kill the local please, every players should learn and have self-intuition .

[xxxTRUSTxxx]

leave it alone in HS and get rid of it everywhere else, but bring a new module/ship/array that gives you something like local, can’t chat just shows who’s in system and undocked. wouldn’t be able to scan cloaked ships.

it should run on fuel and shouldn’t be too cheap to keep running.

ship based - same style as cyno, when you use it your ship can’t do anything else fuel consumption should be the same or close to.

array based/station - runs like a service on station but has a rather high fuel cost

would just be an advanced Dscan really.

just an idea

otherwise, leave it alone because a delay wouldn’t justify a new ship module or station array.

[Fluffy_Moe]

@Dyver_Phycad

Yes, because Dscan mashing is such a great activity. As if fighter management wasn’t RSI-syndrome-ladden enough.

Fluffy_Moe:

Pick systems with a lot of anoms and various things in it. Without local hunters have to either probe / scan (which you will see) or waste a ton of time warping from too many places. In fact, often times by time they come to the place where you are at, you’ll be gone.

Number of anoms does not really matter because only a few of them are worth doing, and dscaning something in these few anoms is a breeze.

Fluffy_Moe:

Dyver_Phycad:

Yes, CCP should do that. And CCP should at the same time also make it possible to earn the same amount of ISK in the same amount of time in the same amount of systems as in w-space. Only then delayed local makes sense and would be acceptable.

Else this demand is just the unsubstantiated rabble of some incompetent hunters who need easy prey so that they can get their PVP fix and don’t have to work for their PVP.

That is very false and exactly opposite of what is happening. I’m mostly a PVEr residing for most part in HS nowadays. Though I have a few years of LS / NS under my belt back from the day. My PvP is very rusty at best. But things I learned back then still apply and work 10x better with local removed. So let me give you some tips:

If doing any sort of plexes, mission, anoms, whatever, that have a jump gate, when you land DO NOT just sit there on landing point and spam your hardeners + long range weapons. Go out at least 120km, 150+ is better but sometimes mission objectives keep you within ceirtain distance. Then stay aligned to something while firing.

Remember, cloakies get decloaked when going through gates, so when you see one or two, just warp out, ez peezy. They can’t get to you that fast, they would have to scram at 100km+.

If you have to, pull the rats with you, they follow, this has a double + because when they do they line themselves up nicely for better damage application.

Watch the D-Scan. If you see probes, keep scanning like mad, see if they’re closing in on you. If you see them at 4AU range and then disappear, again, just warp out, don’t hang around. Common sense and again, super easy.

Pick systems with a lot of anoms and various things in it. Without local hunters have to either probe / scan (which you will see) or waste a ton of time warping from too many places. In fact, often times by time they come to the place where you are at, you’ll be gone.

The dangers are in the non gated places such as the current event sites, asteroids, explo sites. For that, you of course have to simply fly a right ship with a right fit. I personally use a Tengu with the ECM sub system and double ECMs for it. Most often Imenage to lose their target lock long enough for me to warp out. Your ship and fit will vary. On rare occasion due to the way ECM works I still get popped, or when I have 3+ ships jump me their sheer DPS jsut takes me out faster then the ECMs can affect. But those are rare and inbetween. If all you do is fly a mission specific blinged ship fit for nothing but tank and dps in a PvP enabled system then what do you expect ? If you want to do that kind of flying, then welcome to High Sec.

And that’s where null sec gets the shaft under a W-space like null sec system. The right ship is a PVE only ship for the anomalies because PVP ships do not have the tanking capabilities to sustain the NPC DPS. I say it again, as long as null sec does not work like w-space, delayed local is nothing but rubbish because null sec in its current form impedes those w-space tactics for earning money and living there that w-space allow to do with their kind of isk printing features.

You don’t mash d-scan all the time except when you need it. Overall, what can I say, you’re a lost cause, there are those of us that easily can, and those that can’t, you simply belong in the latter group.

If you’re having that much problems with things like fighter management etc. makes me wonder if you are a player at all or just a bot operator trying to troll so the game doesn’t incorporate anything whatsoever that would hinder bots.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

I propose the following:

-HS: Instant Local intel.
-LS: 10s delay on Local intel.
-NPC NS: 20s delay on Local intel.
-Player NS: 30s delay on Local intel.

[Dracvlad]

I just cannot be bothered to play a game where it gets made so damn easy to hunt. Why should I feed such easy kills. Just because so many people are bad at hunting CCP has to make it easier for them. It will kill NS for smaller and medium sized groups…

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Dracvlad

Why should I feed such easy kills.

Golden Rule:
Dont fly what you cant afford to lose.

PvP is crucial in EVE, and it seems there is not enough of it in NS atm, barring actual wars.

[Brom_Svanigandr]

I could see this being implememted if the delay scaled depending on security status. 1.0 sec would have no delay, while every 0.1 point drop would delay 10 additional seconds. Also 0.0 and lower status could have no local like wormhole space.

[Pesadel0]

Sure delay local, but give us means to actively hunt afaik cloak campers.

[Dracvlad]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Golden Rule:

Dont fly what you cant afford to lose.

Irrelevant, I was talking about CCP adjusting the current mechanics to enable people to get kills easier so in effect all I end up doing is feeding people easy kills if I chose to rat of course. By the way I rat with VNI’s, and I can afford to lose about 800 VNI’s. (Damn too many noughts, 800,000 lol…)

@Salvos_Rhoska

PvP is crucial in EVE, and it seems there is not enough of it in NS atm, barring actual wars.

There is enough, it depends where you are, and it will soon really kick off with the jump fatigue changes.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Pesadel0

give us means to actively hunt afaik cloak campers.

Why?
They appear on Local after the delay, anyways.

TLDR: An afk cloaked ship is not a threat, cos its afk.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Salvos_Rhoska

An afk cloaked ship is not a threat, cos its afk

Until they’re not
Because most never are

Oh @Dracvlad i present to you the Salvosbot3000
He’s very repetitive like some broken cd player

[Makshima_Shogo]

A D-scan upgrade to see cloakies on d-scan would be amazing as cloaking bend’s light so that our eye’s and sensor’s cannot see it doesn’t mean a different type of scanning (d-scan) would be effected as well.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Dracvlad

By the way I rat with VNI’s, and I can afford to lose about 800 VNI’s. (Damn too many noughts, 800,000

Then you should be fine.
The reason you rat there, is the greater isk reward.
Rationally, this should be met with greater risk to obtain it.
The 10s Local intel cascade makes that rational.

@Dracvlad

There is enough, it depends where you are, and it will soon really kick off with the jump fatigue changes.

I dont agree.
NS should have by far the most PvP, even outside major wars.
Currently, afaik, that is not the case.

You cant deal with a 30s delay in Player NS Local intel?

[Dracvlad]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Then you should be fine.

In a small system with poor truesec a ceptor can get on you, you don’t have time to get out and of course you have limited sites as it is now. People pick bigger systems like I do with a fair number of sites to even their odds, which is why you never see me rat in G-7 which is a small system. The situation is currently that if you are aware then you have a good chance of getting out, the change will make it so that even if you are aware you will still get caught.

@Salvos_Rhoska

The reason you rat there, is the greater isk reward.

If that was true I would be using a super.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Rationally, this should be met with greater risk to obtain it.

I pick systems to reduce my risk, so doing that will no longer matter?

@Salvos_Rhoska

You cant deal with a 30s delay in Player NS Local intel?

No I can’t as a player, it means that people who operate in 0.0 will just feed kills, it will absolutely devastate smaller and medium sized alliances in nullsec. During the main AU TZ of my alliance well yes we can, but outside of that no. I chose not to operate in WH space because it is too much of a bind, I used to operate in a contested system in NPC 0.0 so had to spam D-scan all the time when people were active, but at least I knew that… It was enough to make me never want to go near WH space to operate in.

How many accounts do I need to have to be able to rat without feeding easy kills? I will tell you, 6 accounts and I will ahve to keep close attention to four of them.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Dracvlad

The situation is currently that if you are aware then you have a good chance of getting out, the change will make it so that even if you are aware you will still get caught.

If you are out AU range of d-scan on the gate, yeah, too bad. But you are outside of their d-scan range too.

D-scan to check for probes.

@Dracvlad

If that was true I would be using a super.

Well, it is true.
Why are you ratting in NS if not for greater profit?

@Dracvlad

I pick systems to reduce my risk, so doing that will no longer matter?

Ofc it will still matter, just in a different way.

@Dracvlad

No I can’t as a player, it means that people who operate in 0.0 will just feed kills, it will absolutely devastate smaller and medium sized alliances in nullsec.

Plenty of people daytrip/roam WHs and manage just fine.
The obvious solution, is rat in PvP fit.

[Helt_Anajkt]

@Dracvlad

Just because so many people are bad at hunting

also, these people should to be hunt, for they own feedback …

[Salvos_Rhoska]

Delay on Local intel will not stop ratting/mining in NS.

The profits are too great for that.
People will always rat/mine in NS.

If you dont like it, move to HS/LS for less profits/less risk, or WHs for no Local whatsoever.

If delay on Local encourages more PvP, is that not a good thing?
This is a PvP based game, afterall.