Dev blog: Balance Update With EVE Online: Lifeblood


(Frostys Virpio) #203

Lore wise, I’m pretty sure a CCP dev stated Caldari were ahead of Minmatar.

(Arrendis) #204

Lore-wise, do you think the Thukkers (who managed to move massive caravans across the Great Wildlands undetected before the introduction of Jump Freighters, by means that are still unknown) think for one moment that the Caldari are more advanced? After all, the Caldari live on rocks. How primitive is that?

(Frostys Virpio) #205

If the last forum still had a search function, I would be able to provide the quote but vov…

EDIT : Google came tot he rescue!!!

In terms of classification based on fleet numbers, it would be something like this:

CONCORD Assembly - Largest by far, in terms of numbers.
Amarr Navy - Massive and sprawling, but aging quite heavily.
Federation Navy - Sizeable, and very much up to date.
Republic Fleet - Sizeable, maybe 70% or so the size of the Federation Navy, but less maintained.
Caldari Navy - Smallest significantly, but incredibly advanced and cutting edge.

There’s no public data on the Jove Navy’s fleet numbers, so they’re not on this list.

In terms of classification based on technology, fleet age and fleet performance per vessel, it would look something like this:

[*} Jove Navy - We know their tech is hugely advanced, so they get top spot.
CONCORD Assembly - they have the ability to keep everyone in check.
Caldari Navy - The Caldari Navy’s fleet is the youngest and most sophisticated. Average fleet age is less than 20 years.
Federation Navy - Very advanced, relying heavily on automation. Reliable and very powerful.
Amarr Navy - Aging, with a significant number of its fleet needing updates and refitting.
Republic Fleet - Not in as bad shape as the worst of the Amarr Navy, but in need of a breath of fresh life in places.

The Empire forces that are encountered on gates, stations and which are seen in space patrolling and responding to those with negative standings are by no means reservists at all. These are active service vessels within the Navy, or their respective corporation.

(Lukett MyDabb) #206

after i looked at it why not give the option to fit all turrets or all launchers in the highs, just sayin’. makes it pretty versatile, and alphas that want to use it can still turret or drone fit.

(Baygun) #207

I’ve used mainly MM ships so i’ll comment on 3 MM changes:

  1. Stabber - for a T1 ship and “designated” role, i think it was relatively good. So any buff is welcome.
  2. Bellicose - there is very bad tendency MM ships to have the shortest locking ranges. That is killing any utility hull, like this cruiser, but i doubt +20km would be enough having the current slot config. I’m pretty sure adding mid/low slot to increase that further would be very welcome.
  3. Rifter - damage from rockets is not something to write home about but having it as an “extra” fits well into MM lore about ships with space engine, many weapons, pile of scrap metal and a lot of tape. For that matter replacing high with low slot and calling that “new option for armor brawler” is SCAM, as Rifter since long time is considered exactly as such :confused:. Calling the same change “new option […] artillery platform” is going beyond that - it is insult to players’ intelligence. Not that it is impossible to fit arty on Rifter, but with current fitting budget and hull bonus, I dare say there will be no arty fit coming even close to AC Rifter in efficiency. Perhaps CCP should rethink on Rifter?

edit wording.

(elitatwo) #208


While you are at it, can the Coercer get more targeting range, so you’ll have 45km at level 5 like the Cormorant does?

37km is a little low for a sniper. Other than that, I welcome that changes.

(Ioz) #209

Medium artillery Trasher! :wink:

(Garresh) #210

Pretty good analysis, but I respectfully disagree about the rocket bonus. Rifter is pretty low on damage. What makes it shine is excellent control in a fight. Running a nos or neut high lets it run surprisingly strong tank or control further, but the rocket is the real winner in many builds, for 2 reasons.

First, it’s pretty cheap to fit, so unless you’re running cap games in your high its a good idea to bring a rocket. More importantly, rifters already have pretty low damage as far as frigates are concerned. Rockets add a lot of damage relatively because they apply well ay the edge of scram range, where a rifter would fight in many fights, and suffer moderate reductions from falloff. In closer brawls where the rifter wants to get close an under their guns, they’re usually fighting an amarr laser ship or a mwd kiter they caught, which means they’re slow. Against generic missile brawlers its not as great, though not terrible since they have larger sig.

Basically, in a huge chunk of situations, rockets are applying damage either better than autos or applying almost without any speed or sig nased reductions. The rocket damage on paper is much worse than the rocket damage in practice, which is why this is an overall damage nerf.

(Garresh) #211

Rockets don’t replace autos, but they supplement it in falloff and add a not insignificant amount given the middling damage of projectiles. I generally strap an extra rocket launcher to most of my rifter and firetail builds. It helps. A lot.

(Lord Rolfski) #212

We already do. Tackle, support, ewar, T1 logistics, alpha clones are great.

These are not necessarily the easiest or most fun things to do for alpha’s, which is another reason why the current alpha balance is messed up.

Alpha should at least be properly fitted to fleetroles where they can just shoot stuff.

(Arrendis) #213

Which is definitely an option when we’re looking at fleets that use frigates and T1 cruisers as dps (caracals, for example). However, when your DPS is in Machariels, the alphas are a lot better off in things that let them contribute.

(Lord Rolfski) #214

This is a problem in basically every alliance, which CCP should really fix: Alpha’s generally just want to kill stuff, before they start specializing in the technicalities of support roles. Therefore CCP should open up more typical fleetdoctrines to alpha’s where they can just do that.

(Sylvia Kildare) #215

Mebbe so, but then what are they going to do for Cal-Min? Invent some brand new faction no one’s heard of? At least the SOE ships were being made for an existing in-game lore-involved faction, whether it’s truly a “pirate” faction or not.

Anyway, despite the Thukker Mix corp being the manufacturer of some t2 Minnie ships, I’d still like to see a separate Thukker frig/cruiser/BS line. Hell, bring on a Khanid one, too! Amarr/Caldari for dat sweet armor/missile combo.

OR… EoM. EoM would also be Amarr/Caldari, I guess. And we already have the Sansha, but… eh.

(JC Mieyli) #216

well we already have t2 khanid ships
would be nice to have khanid faction ships though
something like this

caldari bonus
10% bonus to missile damage

amarr bonus
4% armour resists

role bonus
armour hardeners or maybe modules cannot be overheated but always recieve overheat bonuses

what a brutal thing

(Ascentior) #217

And the stabber has an extra mid, more CPU and higher base shield. Meaning that fitting shield tank (which requires less PG) is more viable. While also having a range buff (instead of a ‘sorry your guns eat all your cap’ buff) making the less-than-biggest guns more useful.

(Frostys Virpio) #218

This is currently impossible in some doctrine and no re-balance of alpha’s will bring that. Some doctrine can support alpha as mainline DPS but the way the game is, they are MUCH more useful in support ships where their presence are meaningful as opposed to borderline useless in a down-matched ship. Even our cruiser doctrine can’t really support alpha’s in mainline DPS ships because they can’t bring the range up on the Moa for example.

Thinking alphas should be in DPS ships and not support only show the real issue that is perception. A player in a support boat is often much more useful to a fleet than another random +1 mainline DPS. The culture around the fleets need to change so being in a support ship stop being seen as a “second unfun job” and alphas will then probably be happy to provide those real useful roles where their limited skill set can still have good effect as opposed to DPS role where they barely add a drop to the bucket because line ships need more complete skillset to perform well.

(Flyinghotpocket) #219

these changes look great. but why isnt the comet getting nerfed a little bit? its so good it literally makes all other frigates junk. it has the effect where you have to use a navy/pirate frigate to take it on. it can do to many things far to well. it needs to loose something. its speed… its dps? something its far to better than the rest of the frigates in the game.

i mean you could soundly go up against destroyers and win a good chunk of the time.

(Arrendis) #220

You mean the Federation Navy Comet is equivalent to a Navy ship? Say it ain’t so!

I expect it, like the other Navy frigates (Hookbill, Firetail, Slicer), will be dealt with in the later pass addressing Faction ships.

(Flyinghotpocket) #221

are you high? its not equivalent to a navy ship. its equivalent to an assault ship or a destroyer. with better stats.

(Jin'taan) #222

Arguably the Mordus should have been Cal/Min, but that didn’t work with the actual bonuses they ended up getting.