Dev blog: Balance Update With EVE Online: Lifeblood


(Dior Ambraelle) #82

And this is just one more reason I personally hate Minmatar.
They should be just as efficient at armor tanking as Gallente and Amarr with shields. “Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should” is usually true, except when we’re talking about game balance. If you can make your 4 main factions to use 4 different defense methods, then you definitely should!

And the lore supports this too: they start with a few old ships right? They have basically no resources.
Armor plates requires a lot of materials to make, high resistance armor needs a lot of special materials to make, high resistance shield needs computing power that could be used better elsewhere, shield boosting needs energy only that they can make by using cheap solar panels.
The ships look like as they do because they only need to be air-tight. The hull should be strong enough to keep the ship together, and that’s it. They don’t use armor or any outer shell in general because they have strong shields, so they don’t need it.

Both the logic of the game balance and the logic of the lore suggests that Minmatar should be shield only, with shield boosting as defense bonus.
No random armor tanking shenanigans like Rupture, Hurricane, Tempest or Typhoon, and definitely no dual tanking nonsense like the Loki!

(Jeremiah Saken) #83

Maybe it is good time to think about hull tanking and revamp it.

(elitatwo) #84

Why would anyone except goons hit approach with a nano kiting ship??

(Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris) #85

Small ships are there to cause all sorts of problems for bigger ones. Not the other way around.
Bigger = better does not work in Eve, especially in PvP.

(tasman devil) #86

Is it just me or was this “buff” underwhelming for all Amarr ships?

Also: Amarr line is mostly Lasers

Then you get something like the Arbitrator which uses Missiles and Drones? Really? Also as someone stated above: Alphas can’t really utilize that ship due to the mixed setup.

CCCPLZ someone needs to look over the whole line with a different mindset that what we have here! If you made the Alphas a [racially] forced line with a [racially] forced set of skills than make the ships they are supposed to be using in line with their skill set.

(Abyss Azizora) #87

I don’t see the +1 mid slot for the punisher. I am displeased.

(Abyss Azizora) #88

Seems someone has never been in a supercapital fight, bigger does = better in eve. It’s just not as totally lopsided as in other games. Also once upon a time, BS did swat frigates like flies in eve, pre-turret tracking/sigs/drones.

Personally the way it works now is great, but I do believe every ship line should have a dedicated ship to annihilating smaller ships, while being annihilated itself by any same-class ship size. A few such ships exist in smaller ship classes, but BS are lacking in that category, which is why BS don’t get used in pvp outside blobs anymore.

(Nikolai Mazinkov) #89

I meant base, pre skills. So -100 base PG of 800 bas will turn into more than 100 out of the 1000 with higher skills

(JC Mieyli) #90

oh that makes sense
im not sure where youre getting the idea you have to lose a gun though
what kind of fit are you looking at

(Kaivarian Coste) #91

^ This. Killing alpha newbros is getting expensive for me. If I see that I’ve killed a poorly-skilled newbro in a shitfit ship, I usually reimburse his cost to get him back onto his feet. It’s not fun either for me or for him. Make them competitive in combat.

(Sky Marshal) #92

I would like to see some balancing about concepts.

Like… shield tanking, and so Caldari in general. I mean, Caldari ships are used but most of the alliance doctrines are minmatar/projectile-based, and so armor tanked.

Why ?

Because of the void bombs of citadels. Artilleries don’t need capacitor to shoot. Armor tank have the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II and most of the fits include some plates. So even if there was few active resist modules in the ship, armor tanking maintain a decent defence once the capacitor is gone by the bombs.

Shield tank and Caldari ships will just die faster than anything else after bombs are launched because no more resists, making them a no-go for battles near citadels and for citadel bashing. Missiles don’t need capacitor, but aren’t as practical than guns and the loss of tank is just unacceptable.

There was a time, the invulnerability field module gave a passive resistance bonus of 15 %, all types, with max skills. It wasn’t equivalent than the EANM but with the passive regen of shields, it was more or less balanced. But this bonus was removed…

It needs to return, so that shield tanking become more viable.

(TrouserDeagle) #93

here’s a rifter with a faction ammo rocket launcher (TQ rifter) vs a rifter with a gyro (“buffed” rifter)

if the target starts mitigating turret damage, that favours the current rifter because rockets are better vs that. if you scram kite, the current one does more dps. if you fit more damage to them both it makes little difference. if you’re flying in nullsec with a web and can apply full rage dps, the new rifter will be outdamaged from 4km onward, and its paper dps advantage at autocannon optimal drops to 2%, even though obviously in any actual fight it will do less damage due to tracking

this “buff” just removes utility highslot minmatar flavour and diversified damage application or cap warfare options in favour of making the ship better in goofy disruptor kite fits, which are all terrible. I suggest bringing back the tracking bonus, and fixing the inbalances in base weapon damage

(Arcturus Ursidae) #94

Have to agree Rifter change isn’t quite as good as it seems, it does create different pressure on fittings also, without 10-15 cpu coming with that change to make a gyro a firm choice without downgrading tackle or a dcu I am unsure whether it changes the rifters spot in the pack.

(Lukett MyDabb) #96

idk, as someone who’s way to familiar with armor tanking but finds missiles boner inducing, i have very little ships i can actually use, when i asked someone once the only answers i got for an armor tanking missile boat were the rattle and barghest. noone told me the arby, to which i’ll promptly buy and use since my other options are rather expensive.

this alt actually uses that utility high on the rifter for salvaging jita wrecks, it’s a shame i have to get something else, but having a cheap armor tanking missile boat seems like an acceptable tradeoff.

(JC Mieyli) #97

and they never told you about
and the best one of all is typhoon

(namyboy) #98

+1 from me a good idear !!

(Rapala Armiron) #99

Poor rifter. Ccp - “we nerfed the rifter to uselessness and now don’t know what to do. We’ll switch some slots around. Maybe that will do something.”

(Nou Mene) #100

supposedly you have primary and secondary weapons systems… and you get those represented in each faction lineup.

Cant see why caldari should have droneboats…

(Belco) #101

Idea of changing the rifter is great, but if CPU isn’t bumped it’s pretty much a nerf to the ship. The utility high was used for rockets or small neuts ~10 CPU for Tech II mods, but generally 8 for the meta ones. You can’t even swap that for a tracking enhancer, let alone a gyrostab or ENAM.

You could put more powergrid into that extra low slot to fit artillery, but the rifter is rubbish at artillery because it’s not bonused for optimal or tracking.

Edit: actually overdrive and nano’s fit in that slot. Rifter is going to be the fastest frigate

(Nou Mene) #102

Minmatar has always been dual tanking in nature.
Most ships have lower shields/armor/hull than the other races to balance this.
Minmatar hulls are ussually faster (as in top speed, hide Stabber FI).
Minmatar, among other things, invented acceleration gates, what makes you think they’re primitive tech wise?

Frustrated with the inefficiencies involved in tracking multiple fuel types, Thukker logisticians pioneered the development of prepackaged fuel. In YC 111, after a successful trial period, they converted the Tribe’s entire starbase network to use fuel blocks. Capsuleers were forced to wait for this innovation while CONCORD dithered over how to handle the transition period, but were finally granted clearance in YC 113.