Dev blog: Balance Update With EVE Online: Lifeblood

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(Jeremiah Saken) #123

Alpha clones as my second free alt account or other players behind alpha?


(Code Redd) #124

Seriously, devs… Corax.

While i like the change that you have lined up for it already, it needs 3 more power grid. heck, id settle for 2, but 3 is really desperaly needed. You see, light missile fits are VERY restricted on being able to fit almost literally anything. you cant have any sort of tank at all, and have a prop mod. you cant have any kind of prop mod, and have a tank. 3 more power grid would fix it. I’ve flown a lot of corax. I have 120+ solo kills in the thing, so, i know what it takes to get one rolling (a head full of implants, is what). 3 more power grid. The CPU is fine honestly, it forces one to make desperate (and financial) choices in the fit if you keep the CPU where it is.

corax needs 3 power grid for light missile fits (it should BE a light missile boat, one of its bonuses is almost useless to rockets, at least effectively, the only way anyone goes fast enough to have the rockets explosion velocity decrease damage is if they use a mwd, and if the DO use a mwd, the sig more than compensates for it–the bonus is useless to rockets–that should be ballence enough)


(Neugeniko) #125

I’m not sure what to make of the rifter changes. Theory crafting brawl fits gets me a extra 6.2% (dps*ehp). So I guess I can say its a buff for me, but not a huge amount.

Cheers,
Neug


(Arrendis) #126

New players in alpha clones, old players using alphas to start picking up other roles while their main account is focused on something longer-duration, doesn’t matter. (Though personally, I’d hope the older players would be able to at least PLEX for the faster skill training time.)

Obviously, I can’t speak for all of the null blocs, but I always try to make sure alphas of all four races have options, even if it’s just T1 logi or ‘grab a frigate and go help with the support fleet’. Newbies are awesome, and the more of them we can keep in the game, the better off we all are—including them.


(Amarisen Gream) #127

Roden Shipyards - states in their bio they are a missile development corps yet Gallente have like 0 missile ships as well.

Or it used to. I remember reading it somewhere.


(Namaan) #128

Giving Alphas BC would throw off the Clone type’s balance. There is plenty of value in Alphas as is… The only thing that I think needs buffing on Alphas is mastery, because having that 1 ship not at mastery 1 keeps setting off my OCD, and why are some Mastery 1, some 2, and a few none? Wouldn’t you want them all the same?.. Also why no navy dessy? There is a hole in the pattern >.<

As for the topic, I like these changes, just a few more baby steps should do it imo, as well as addressing some of the lacking skills like Amarr missiles and the Arbi.


(Arcturus Ursidae) #129

Another option with the Rifter could be to follow the stabber ship line example and have 7.5% rof bonus instead. Perhaps keep current slot layout that way.


(JC Mieyli) #130

stabber gets 5% rof
10% falloff

rifter gets 5% rof
10% falloff

so im not sure what youre asking for really


(Butch Microdis) #131

It is very interesting, from a business owner’s viewpoint, to watch the changes that have been made in the last year. While there have been a lot of good additions to content with Citadels and the new fleets of mining ships and such, one thing that has become painfully obvious is that the decisions around gameplay are made based on the consideration of real world corporate profits first, favoring older players above new players second in regards to combat, and somewhere around 5th or 6th is to improve the quality of the game for the new guy.

The current changes in the frigates could best be described as painting the front door of your house when your basement is flooded. It is glaringly obvious that the kinds of changes that would truly help new players have been overlooked in favor of older players. I understand player retention, customer retention is a large part of my business, but to alienate new customers in favor of older customers is a slippery slope. The only changes I have seen done that really effect older players negatively are based around ISK generation. The wimps of Rorq’s and fighters was obviously done so old players couldn’t make as much ISK and PLEX their accounts with in-game money, thereby forcing them to spend real world money more often. This tells me that the older players not spending money on the game was becoming a problem. Conversely a new player has much more incentive to spend real world money on the game to further themselves than an old player. While the Omega/Alpha clone states were a great idea to bring in new players, my experiences revealed that all it was, was an opportunity for new players to come in and see how hostile to new players the game was and leave. The majority of the alpha accounts I have seen are being run by old players.

With Warcraft being such a successful game of the level that CCP only dreams about I will use that as an example. If an entry level character gets attacked by an advanced level character, the outcome is not in doubt. It is the same in this game. The difference in Warcraft is that if an experienced player kills a new character, there are no real benefits to that old player. In this game, an old player with a 100 million skillpoints and a couple billion in implants (About $40 of real world money) can come in and absolutely smoke a fleet of new players without much effort. Most of the younger players that are getting smoked don’t even know what implants are. Once a new player gets anxious about losing all the time and starts buying PLEX with real world money and buying skill injectors to make themselves more able to play with the big boys, it becomes obvious that it is an expensive losing battle. There are a million simple ways to remedy this that would not mess up the game play. For instance, only post kills to the killboards where the players are within certain skill levels of each other, Make a rating system that determines how tough a pilot you are by comparing your skill points to those of the people you kill. Make characters that get killed under 5 million skillpoints get their ships and themselves teleported off the field of battle and into a holding area. Now THOSE changes would help the new players.

Implants are also a huge problem for this game. You can get these fancy slave sets that boost a non attribute facet of the game beyond what there is any non-implant counter for, then you can get an implant that increases that boost by 50%. The force multiplying factor these give older characters are akin to handing out invulnerability talismans, unless you are fighting someone that is equally implanted up. The bonuses from implants would be much better if they never got above a 3% boost in any stat, even with multipliers.

The other issue I see is the lack of balance between attackers and the victims. As an example, the super fast T2 frigates that everyone uses to tackle with now used to have a counter in the rapid light missile and the T3 Destroyers. We all know what CCP did to both of those. I mean, how dare a new player get into a T3 destroyer quickly and start kicking ass! Now with implants a Malediction pilot is virtually immune from them. For that matter they are immune to virtually everything but faction webs. How many people do you know that go ratting with a faction web? How many new players even know what a faction anything is?
Even high skilled drone pilots are having a hard time taking out T2 frigates.

Furthermore, the open willingness to allow blatant scams in local is just ridiculous. While not every form of scamming should be banned, the local scamming just alienates new players and pisses people off. When I started out and was in a noob corp in Hisec I saw time and time again where a new player would see the hangar firesales and such, go buy PLEX with real world money to buy the scammed product, only to find out that they just got ripped off for real world money, say screw it and quit for good. I understand that CCP doesn’t want to hire the staff required to police the population, but that’s just laziness and greed. It’s also one of the reasons the game lost its PEGI rating.

My advice would be, if your changes are going to be ineffective, just stop making them and let everyone learn to work with what they have. If you are going to make changes based strictly on money, recognize it is the new players that you stand to make money off and treat them accordingly.


(Arrendis) #132

He’s talking about the fact that in this same update, the stabber is going to 7.5% rof.


(JC Mieyli) #133

oh okay i get it


(Perkutor Jakuard) #134

As a rifer user ( omega ) the main problem will be the capacitor, it almost can not empty an AAR, having near perfect skills. Alphas will only spend 5 or 6 charges without the nosferatu.

The other “valid” fit now is a 400mm buffer with a neutralizer, whithout that neut it is not too much interesting IMO.

Not sure if the change is positive for alphas.

Why not a 4th turret wich would put a bit more of dps on scene ?

What about a 4th medium making it run on shields decently, minmatar alphas only would need to raise shield skills.

Why not letting alphas use their secundary racial weapons, or any. Just giving them more flexibility and taste other play styles.


(Felix Judge) #135

How about a dynamic, automatic balance system? Apparently, there are statistics which ships are used much, and which are used little.

Proposal: With each update, increase a random stat of three random little-used ships by a small amount, with a very small chance of adding a random slot.

To avoid a perpetual “upward developement”, also decrease a random stat of three random much-used ships’ by a small amount, again with a very small chance to lose a random slot. Voilá, a self-regulating system.


(Arrendis) #136

uhm… no. random change for the sake of change is bad, mmmmkay?


(Taxtro Grave) #137

this is (so far) a decent balance

CCPls, don’t ruin faction cruisers


(Matthias Ancaladron) #138

i meant marauders sorry if i said dread, its just the dreads size is so big at that point i dont see how they would fit xl turrets on the bs models.


(Bjorn Tyrson) #139

I understood what you ment, i think I might have been the one who accidentally said dreads as well. I think a stationary “doom-stick” that can only self rep, but can deal strong damage to all subcap ship types like you suggested, would give a marauder its own unique niche, which it is sorely lacking right now. and while yes it would be quite powerful, would be representative of the price tag.


(James Zimmer) #140

Thanks for the update! I like little balance tweeks and I think it will keep the game feeling fresh. A few thoughts on this particular round.

Rifter: I’m not going to lie and say I fly T1 frigates very often, but this looks like a good tweak to make the Rifter a bit stronger, and the slot layout is a bit more logical, so overall, I like it.

Dragoon: Really good change! 2 mids is extremely limiting and I think this will make the Dragoon a lot more of a competitive choice when compared with the Algos. I think there’s a slight chance it may get a bit too good since 4 lows already allows it to have a very impressive tank for a T1 destroyer, but I think the relatively lower DPS will help keep it in line.

Corax: I didn’t feel that the Corax was really struggling that much, but at the same time, this is a minor tweak. Overall, I don’t expect its strength in the meta to shift much if at all.

Arbitrator: I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, it definitely needed more lock range to be an effective TD ship. However, I also feel like it should be qualitatively worse than a general combat ship like a Vexor at general combat, and with the nerf to the Vexor, and the improvements to the Arbitrator’s weapon layout, PG and CPU, I feel the Arbitrator may just become the flat-out better option than the Vexor in a lot of cases.

Bellicose: I like these changes. The lock range upgrade makes it a lot more viable as a paint ship for small gangs, and the extra fitting space should make shield fits a bit more comfortable and could make armor versions viable. As a shield missile ship, I feel that Caracals will still have the edge as a general combat ship, which is good. It leaves room for both ships.

Omen: While I like the fact that the Omen is getting stronger, I still feel like it’s going to be weaker than a Maller as an armor brawler due to it’s much lower EHP, and weaker than the Stabber and Caracal at kiting/anti-tackle due to its relatively poor tracking and cap hungry guns. I really think it needs an extra mid to be competitive. A 5H/4M/5L makes the most sense, though it would make it painfully similar to the Thorax and Rupture. 4H/4M/6L would be interesting, though it would take some careful tweaks in other departments in order to keep it balanced.

Stabber: I always felt that the Stabber should have better DPS for having 6 highs, so I really like this change.

Tristan: In the same way as the Rifter, I don’t fly T1 frigates very often. However, I see this as a relatively minor change that won’t mess with the meta too much. I’m neutral to it.

Vexor: I feel the Vexor was easily the strongest solo T1 cruiser brawler. I also feel brawling is pretty weak compared to kiting, and the Vexor left a lot to be desired as a kiter or as a fleet ship due to often poor application and severely delayed damage. I really don’t feel it needed this nerf.


(Matthias Ancaladron) #141

Yeah I’m not against the anti cap idea I just dont see how they would fit the guns on it visually.
And the attack bcs have no tank, slightly off topic but I’ve always wanted t2 attack BC that keeps the 8 guns for medium turrets and normal bonuses like the regular bc’s

That might be op though to have an abc with 8 heavy medium turrets and conventional tank but there’s not much choice in the BC depart ment cause the only t2s are command ship’s, I just want a heavy assault battlecruiser. Not a boosting BC.

I just think itd be weird to have marauders with three xl turrets, less tank and doing dread damage if it follows the abc model.


(Nevyn Auscent) #142

I think you might be surprised how BS & Dreads size relatively. Those guns should fit. They’ll be big & bulky, but they should fit. Also they don’t need to be immobile any more with the new splits in Ewar resistances.
However… that’s a bit off topic from an alpha ship rebalance. Vexor nerf does seem to hit the fits that use guns a bit hard. Maybe a drop to 3 turrets and an increase in the hybrid bonuses to go with it so you can still fit a similar gun range, but not as much on other fits.