You dont have to form a fleet of maledictions, you just need one or two in a claw fleet for fast tackle while claws get out of bubbles (if any). Not sure why it is so hard to grasp this concept instead of going to extremities.
^^^this guy is being deliberately ommissive of key information in his posts. or he is ignorant. either way I would strongly advise ppl to review the Kool-Aid contents before drinking.
some have complained that more csm are not responding. I would say we have 1 too many.
a) ecm is not in need of THIS âbalanceâ
b) this is not balance. its absurd; just the idea that a jamming ship can jam a target successfully (CHANCE based with many mitigating factors (more on this later)) yet the target can somehow magically still lock the jammer freely. no reset even. just think about it. I donât mean lore. I mean mechanics.
c) it has been said by many others in this thread but I will repeat it: RIP HALF THE CALDARI SHIPLINE; for their hull bonus now have ZERO effect in a 1v1 scenario. Show me where this logic is applied to any other, as common, hull bonus? ill wait. bc I kno you like to troll apparently. @Brisc Rubal oh and make sure you call it ââbalancedââ when you imagine one up! 
or mayb ecm is just âspecialâ right? riiiight 
d) it has been said, ill repeat: there are many things in the game that are âunfunâ. ecm is not the most broken among them. hardly.
this is where we get to talk about Briscâs inability to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth and Nothing But the Truth:
e) there IS counter play to ecm. right now. in game. you can prepare for a possible type of engagement. or not. ill give you a hint: its a form of tankâŚnot hullâŚnot armorâŚnot shieldsâŚewar tank?? oh, and like weapons systems, ecm have an optimal and falloff range. what do you do when you donât like being shot? you run away right? dont like being jammed?? well, run forest! ecm boats are generally not the fastest, since they are generally caldari<<also not the fastest of the races. your a man and donât believe in running? wellâŚ
when you place a sebo on a ship, you just built into it THREE BUFFS! *ty ccp for the prior Real balance on ecm mechanics.
SEBO IS GOOD! SCAN RESOLUTION - allows your ship to lock targets Faster. People that donât readily acknowledge how valuable that is, in big fights AND small, are hiding something. Or they really shouldnât be on the csm imo.
SEBO IS GOOD! ECCM SCRIPT - if your being jammed, cycle sebo (cuz you have one fitted right? no? shucks), throw in the eccm script, and wait for the jams to fail. lock target. kill. Brilliant!
SEBO IS GOOD! TARGETING RANGE SCRIPT - if your like some csm members and cant imagine y someone would fit a sebo onto their ship every single time for the eccm potential (esp w/eccm script) ⌠well, you can fit the targeting range script and suddenly sniper fits are possible! ya kno what else is possible in that configuration??? you just buffed yourself against the meanest ewar in game at the moment(DAMPS!)
lets say your on the csm and too good for fitting ewar tank mods onto all your ships, you kno, cuz ppl vote for the best and brightest among usâŚdidnât forget your suitcase tho right?
well
REMOTE SEBO IS GOOD! works just like SEBO, but you can make your f2 monkeys fit it. or not. see above cuz, reasons.
f) as someone else has already mentioned, ill REPEAT: ecm has been nerfed before and its Counter(S) have been buffed!
g) there are also skills that increase your inherent ewar tank potential in ALL regards, a single all purpose mod(sebo) and even a low slot mod, rigs, boosts, and the #'s actually stack quite nicely. if you WANT to defend against ewar you canâŚkinda like damage typesâŚimagine! lol but who really fits em tank mods on their shield ships?? nobody right?? should probly âbalanceâ those too eh?
its not balance if you fix a problem that didnât exist in the prominence you claim while breaking over a dozen things that are NOT broken(like half a racial shipline). IF there is a Specific scenario where ecm is onerous, perhaps a hull bonus tweak is in order, or a general hull buff to sensor strength if something is particularly BAD vs ecm?
oh no, lets entirely change the effect of ecm, and call it balance. (f1 csm monkeys applaud loudly)
anything to save the ratting carriers from the cheapest frig in the game!
now to interceptorsâŚ
I was hesitant to support the nullification addition some time back, but its grown on me. taxi ceptors are awesome. mayb too awesome in some cases, for their combined effects make for a ship that is almost TOO FAST. caldari get the shaft here, again. for reasons already mentioned. ill repeat: the other races keep a travel ceptor with these changes. caldari doesnât. thatâs not balance.
claw fleets with arty; perhaps needing a look, but nullification strip from 4 hulls bc of the flaws in 1? thatâs not balance. adjust alpha, adjust rof, adjust fitting. small footprints can go a long way. and are far less disruptive to the player base. As its already been mentioned ill repeat: these changes will move the meta, but not stop the purported âproblemâ. it will just move to another ship hull. thatâs poor designâŚIF it was truly the nullification that made the claw worthy of a look in the first place. obviously it wasnât. note that csm wanted all the inty to lose nullification.
anything to save the afk rorqs and their billion isk drones? or the afk vniâs? or the afk carriers? its hard to script a bot to Fight Back amirite??
making anchorable bubbles behave differently from ship/probe bubbles is an interesting idea. it would b expansive, change things but not drastically, and would net more pilots in space. all good things imo. worthy of a look at least.
now some csm member, I forget his name, said something about not being able to counter interceptors cough
well, there are entire classes of ships designed for that very purpose. interceptors are among the flimsiest ships in game. if your having trouble catching them quickly perhaps I can introduce you to sebos? see above^^ there are also AOE weapons that are quite effective against low hp things, like interceptors. theres also a thing called upshipping, and downshipping. depending on the scenario. but I donât want to confuse my betters with options or details
these âproblemsâ can be addressed with a lighter touch, to greater effect. just saying. almost makes me think the Real motivations for these changes are different than what is claimedâŚ
finally, hicsâŚ
its been said already but ill repeat: 8k m/s hics with interceptor agility is not balanced. its also temporary in its abuseable time frame, and has inherent drawbacks related to the fitting. like many other things in game that are generally accepted and certainly not being addressed in this patch. there has been ample time to find a solution without trashing a common use of the hull class(wh rolling).
many suggestions have been made, all valid in their own way, but the least disruptive one seems to get the least traction: make the activation of the bubbles and their penalty to speed apply immediately like cloaking. work is what we pay ccp to do. if its too hard to code and you âcantâ do it your probly not trying hard enough. nothing new anyways.
removing a common form of use from wh groups which is a common precursor to CONTENT is just dumb. again this is an ass-hatted solution to a very niche problem. anything to keep whâers from rolling into our afk rorqs/carriers/vniâs/ishiâs amirite??
frig hole rolling is NOT what hics are primarily used for in wh space. i kno there is a bug. but this âbugâ method is not reliable. nor are frig holes reliable. and it can be fixed without trashing its primary use for rolling(crit holes).
however, their application in relation to a frig holes IS interesting and I havenât seen it mentioned so ill elaborate: properly fitted hics can traverse a frig hole. this means rather than being limited to a dessie hull for bubble, you can potentially bring a faaaar far tankier hull(hic) through a frig hole. pack a refit and a depot. what do you need on grid to hold an afk ratting supper or the like?? hmm, certainly cant have THAT can we?? amirite??
hics ARE used to close critical/VOC holes. it is more than common. Especialy After a fight on a wh; where the mass cant always be readily and reliably tracked for calculation. No one Likes being rolled out of their own hole. can we place that in the same bucket as dying while jammed plz? k. thanx. oh and btw, for the csm members who donât knoâŚyes, fights On WHâs IS Common. you kno, when whâers arenât killing fat lazy things in ns
ppl praise ccp for all their hard work and then tell us that its too hard to code prevention of a carefully timed mwd/bubble combo for bug effects. ok. fine. then it stays in game for who knows how long? long enough to code a new game. then its used in a public setting and we get a rushed and functional fix?? no. instead we are shoveled this pack of garbage. the whole month looks to b wasted.
October Balance???
HAH!!
PASS
memorable quotes:
âThe session ended with good feelings all aroundâ -yea, I bet it did.
âEveryoneâs favorite form of E-war has been due for an updateâ -yea, very funny. then suddenly not.
âAs a victim, watching your ship die while ________ without anything you can do about it feels bad.â -fill in the blank.
âwhen you get unlucky and miss a lot of jamsâ -thought this never happens, cuz bad balance/OP jams??
âwhile jammed, you can always lock the ship that is jamming youâ -lol, still laughing at this one
âdramatically increase the feeling of agency and control for the victimâ -so dying will feel less âbadâ? if you werenât using sebo before, locking the jam boat at His ideal range will not save you. just saying.
" in the short term, balance for ships focused on ECM may be a bit out of whack" -admitting my point
âlong term we hope to be able to increase jam strengthâ -to make it out of balance again?
âthe very popular Claw doctrines, feel terrible to fight againstâ -paper always hates scissors, try again
âdonât have any clear countersâ -bc ccp plays black desert online too much and eve not enough apparently. or they are listening to the csm
âremoving all navigation related penalties from the warp disruption field generatorâ -almost makes you wonder y they were put there in the first place 
âHICs with normal fits will go faster with active warp disruption fields than beforeâ - oh THATS WHY!! I remember now!
âbut we donât see any reason that is a problemâ -huh? did eating all of ccp cause pearl abyss to go blind??
and the fan favorite:
âwormholers will be unwilling collateral damage, as they often are, due to the incredible usefulness of HICs for rolling holesâ -well frup you too ccp! right in the bum eh?
its all garbage. flush it. read through these comments. restart. get it right. and I will start paying you again. sub expired yesterday. forums are free. 2 can play this game 
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CCP / CSM = Goon renters
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the ecm ships cant die if they are never undocked
fof shoot, donât they?
mayb the reasons exist, but they keep getting batted down by nerfs to things like griffin swarms
sebos are the obvious counter to ecm
Imperium news already stated that removeal of c-ceptor nullification is just the first step and that nullification needs further looking into. Must be convenient to bubble every gate and cyno a coffin in and have a nice clean farming garden.
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proving your a troll. ty and gj
I hope you find some other thread to troll. you have added very little to this conversation, yet you are very good at trying to suppress opposing povâs with half-truths, at best
a lone carrier that dies to multiple pilots, deserves to die. Idc if they are frigates. wtf happened to goons ideology??? is this a byproduct of being at the top?
What does it say about a game if zerglike numbers bring you âto the topâ?
And then even try to change game mechanics to your own favor even when anyone knows its less fun then? No. Thats pathetic and not ok. This account will no longer be continued.
NO TO OCTOBER âBALANCEâ PASS!
Edit:
(If you still think that removing freedom by interceptor / killing afk isk generators is a good idea I suggest u read some of Rivr and Sonic Mulderâs posts above. Very good arguments. Even a change of the claw alpha would be a dickmove, and I dont even fly them.
Skirmish is a very viabale answer to fight a much stronger enemy (titan/super umbrella, numbers) - this patch is a try to remove that option.)
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You can easily counter interceptors with smartbombs and doomsdays.
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most people are not very smart, is this to be our new standard?
Agree 100%
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What do you mean ânewâ? âMost people are not very smartâ is not a reason to take away any reason to try to learn. âMost people are not very smartâ by virtue of laziness, not low IQ.
it will b even easier if the intyâs are caught on the edge of bubbles
100% disagree, unless we want more of the same junk dribbled out of different mouths?
https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6472867/
hics on frig holes for rolling purposes sounds like a bug to me. squeezing thru is one thing. wedging a fat-ass thru via careful button clicks to abuse ticks is another. same as the lurching hic, broken, and should b an easy code fix. no need to upend the whole of eve for a few shitters that found a workaround to being bad @ eve
Nope. Not typical at all. In fact, Iâd call that âbadly fitâ. Good on you for killing him. With a fit that trash, he deserved to die. In the end, I donât think these Interceptor changes are going to really amount to much, unless they go through with pulling the bubble immunity from the other 4, as well. If they do that, the question becomes âjust what the hell are Interceptors good at that AFs donât already do better? Burning perches?â
As for the HIC changes⌠the Lurch HIC needed to be hit with a hammer. Hard. The Hole-Rolling HIC⌠did not, and itâs pretty damned shameful the way CCP is making their assurances at FF that no change would go in that screws over Hole-Rolling in a bunch of lies.
Well, since you didnât volley the Thanatos down in one shot, the math moves from volley (the Clawâs specialty) to DPS, where the Claw is actually not as much stronger than the others as you might think. A 2-gyo insta-warping Claw does 185 dps. The Malediction with a single BCS and rig (which the Claw is also using) comes in at 124. A Crow, same. So youâre looking at needing 25% more, or a total of 35 instead of 28.
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