Dev blog: Triglavian Technology - Ships & Weapons


(elitatwo) #286

13 of what? You are the grammar police, be specific.

The pattern is that all frigates with 13 slots are gun-boats, except for the Worm because you could fit a module or not.

(Erethond) #287

Yeah, the fitting is challenging, and it is quite possible that 2 mids - 4 lows and requiring that you cooperate (50/50 web/scram?) was better for the design idea than the 3/3 “fix”.

CCP went and applied the typical fix for PvP (enable web/scram/prop) to a situation that is not typical (the damavik is a lot more fleet oriented than any other frig bar the logi and maybe ewar frigs). It’s like they’re trying to make it better at 1v1 even though it is intended to suck there and will continue to do so with this fix.

I expect that a real buff would have been to CPU/PG to remove the almost requirement of using CPU/PG modules or rigs.

Interesting point! And with 5 you still have the DPS of 5 frigs vs their 3. So you match reps and have more damage than the opposition. Trig ships should be great for good small/medium gang ops with good pilots. Not so much for things like Spectre Fleet, or very small gang ops. And that’s fine. Too bad CCP is straying from their original design with a “fix” meant for solo pvp trying to improve a fleet ship.

Heck, that’s making me think of a way to make navy ships more interesting (and more fleet oriented instead of just more powerful): buff resists (so they take logi better) and base HP (to survive until they get logi), but nerf PG as a trade-off (so local reps are worse, buffer/plate size is compensated by the aforementioned base HP buff). Then you get the regular line for solo and the navy/fleet versions for fleet ops!

Also, please don’t feed the troll. Besides making its original point about people who shouldn’t write “all” when meaning “almost all”, it’s better to keep their “contribution” and engagement with the thread as low as possible!

(Ildrara) #288

I get it. You want people to stop pointing out your lies.
I think everyone wants that. Lets report some user that points out lies to isd. Lets make a hug box.

Stop being so salty. You’re instigating all of this.

Don’t attack me while defending someone else for the same thing.

(Ildrara) #289

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

(dewk) #290

CCP have always hinted at the power of three, when the talked about the precursor race.

And as you point out numbers would make a difference, though you could say the same for other ships too. Most have seen the Nester WH site fleets and how almost unstoppable these fleets are in c4 or high sites.

Interesting thing is a solo Damavik can be very deadly with the right fit and drones, plus if your target isn’t setup to counter you. Last night tested out the 3/3/3/3 slot setup on the test server, I had Corp mates testing out cruiser fits and they were expecting me to bring out an cruiser too, instead out pops the Damavik, half of them asked what the hell was it, and the other asked why a frigate to a cruiser fight.

Interestingly the turret/twin necro, weapon disrupt, and basic armour tank, she handled being attacked, it’s speed and named armour repair keep the little bugger alive. The twin necro countered all EWAR attempts from the cruisers.

Only issue was drones, but luckily I had augmented drones, which I used to kill of their medium drones, and to help give extra dps on target ship. Even without any turret enhancements from modules, once the faction turret did some really great damage. Most said as soon as their shield dropped the turret ripped through their ships.

Interesting thing was afterwards many brought up possible fleet setups using the Damavik in pvp. And the fear of if such fleets appeared and would there be a good way to counter them!

But I’d agree against similar sized ships the procursor ships in a one on one would have a hard job to win. There are a number of issues with them, we know the larsak has a low EHP for a faction battleship, and other concerns in its current design. The Damavik so far there’s been the mid-slot issue, which has been addressed, but only to make yet another.

Once the larsak comparison is duplicated for the Damavik and Vedmark, we’ll be able to make a decision on where these two ships have concerns and issues.

Also ran a test with the lashak against other battleships fit later on, and found it did well in one on one against EWAR ships and drone-boats, and due to setup against most close/med-range turret ships, but what took her down was an heavy-assault Rattlesnake missile-boat, this was after a good 10-15minutes of battle, and a massive drone fight with Geckos and the new medium-sized gecko-clone. Managed to get the shields down, but sadly the player had some high-grade implants which made it hard to keep the shields down. And I wasn’t able to keep the armour repair above the damage taken.

On a side note the new drone is an amazing drone. For a omni-damage medium drone, I can’t wait to see these on sale and in action on the live server.

(Ncc 1709) #291

they already are??

(dewk) #292

yip after that last update, though the prices for complete ‘subverted’ drone are starting above 240mil on contract atm, and BPCs are roughly the same price

(dewk) #293

Spoken with a few roam/pvp m8s that have been using the Damark in limit numbers(due to costs), and most wonder why CCP removed the lowslot for the midslot.

They can see the advantage of having the extra midslot, but agree it isnt as big a advantage of having 4 lowslots. Many like me have said the 4low 2 mid setup is not much different to the much cheaper 5low 2mid punisher in fitting.

So many are wondering how this will pan out once live.

(Dread Saboteur) #294

It needs 3mid 4 lows maybe leave it with only 2 highs as for vedmak it’s such a piece of junk.Vedmak needs an optimal range bonus more than tracking I feel also needs more powergrid

(dewk) #295

The main common thing seems to be among the Precursor ships is the low powergrid and CPU capabilities, and the poor EHP when compared with other faction ships of the same size.

The midslot issue and the cost related to the sacrifice of a lowslot on the Damavik is a cost that has potential major issues.

Personally tested the 3 lowslot, 3 midslot version on the test server, and found the lose of the lowslot made it harder to maintain a healthy EHP on a ship with a low EHP by default. This is mainly due to CPU and/or Powergrid module requirements just to mount just the basic highslot items and the extra midslot module. Mounting a complete T2 fit is near impossible without completely forgoing EHP upgrades.
I question how well it compares to an ECM interceptor.

Even the current 4 lowslot, 2 midslot Damavik on the live server still has limitations with its powergrid, cpu and EHP. Even this with a t2 fit, has a extremely hard time soloing, with two others it’s a bit better. But not many are willing to fly identical fit ships in a frigate.

I wonder how many purchased the Damavik with thoughts of using it as a solo operations ship.

(Nevyn Auscent) #296

Your ‘low EHP’ claim is based purely on comparing them to faction navy ships, this is a claim that has no substance behind it as CCP have not clarified at what power level the precursor style ships should fit. Currently they have skill requirements similar to a T1 ship, not a Navy ship.

(dewk) #297

CCP also need to look at the construction costs of Precursor Blueprints.

a Damavik requires the normal amount of materials and good amount of item. 150zero-Point and 220Isogen-10
while the Light Entropic Disintegrator I requires the normal amount of materials and good amount of item. 450*zero-Point and 15Isogen-10
the Light Scoped Entropic Disintegrator has similar material requires though slightly higher, but has the same high zero-point requirements.
the **Heavy Disintegrator’*s has similar materials as most medium turrets, and the Isogen-10 has slight increase to 25, but the Zero-point increases by 220 to **660
and the Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator I like the others has an 280 increase on it’s Zero-point amount upto 940 units required.
As it is the ammo requirements for Zero-point are also high large Plasma requires 125 units for 1,000 rounds, medium requires 85 units per 1,000 rounds and 45 units for the small for 1,000 rounds, and the T2 versions require just under double that for 1,000 rounds.

As Zero-point costs on average ATM 121k ISK per unit, and Crystalline Isogen-10 at average or 500k ISK, this makes for over priced items to build.

I wonder is this an type-o, as there seems to be a very limited amount of the Zero-point and Crystalline Isogen-10 on the market and what is there are way over priced for the amounts required to make the basics, not taking into account the risk and time involved just to find BPC’s in the first place to make this items.

What do others think?

(Dread Saboteur) #298

Do you want the honest answer of what I think?

(dewk) #299

one day hopefully :wink:

(Fluffy Moe) #300

I’m more concerned about these from a general solo / small standard fleet standpoint. It is obvious they have some very nice but very niche roles. For example the Leshak with implants, boosters 3-4 sinks in lows + 3-4 drone amps in lows is a fleet DPS beast, and that is good.

But in general we already have way too many ships in the game that do well with pocket heals and pocket cap feeds etc. absolutely no need for more. Game needs more general play ships so more people can fly them in more situations. I feel there has been an extremely, and I do mean extremely missed opportunity here by CCP. For starters they could have made it so that the Vedmak, instead of a Gila is the meta for running Abyss and killed multiple birds with one stone by doing so. But they didn’t. They screwed it up.

To me it seems the Leshaks in general are in a good spot. They can do PvP and PvE content even when not in niche fits or fleet dedicated fits.

Vedmak and Demavik is where the issues are.

Demavik is totally screwed. It really needs an extra slot or a very significant boost to its armor / resist profile.

The Vedmak is kinda inbetween Demavik and Leshak, its still OK but just barely. I’m currently running various tests on various content in it.

I find it a very, very fun ship, in fact, the combat mechanics are such that it is by far the most fun ship in the game hands down. Of course this varies, different people have different tastes, but I guarantee there are plenty of people that feel same as I do.

Which makes my disappointment in it even worse. To make such an awesome ship, and then fk it up so incredibly badly in the name of “fleet only” or “niche only” is just a fkn travesty. A horrible, horrible thing to do.

What would help out the Vedmak ? A number of things.

A little more powergrid
Better resits profile
An extra slot in lows
Faction sinks and precursor weapon rigs

There is lots of other stuff too. But any of the above would pretty much let it be more versatile, enough to make it fully usable for more general gameplay not just be limited to niche roles.

One of the things that came to my mind is that looking at them and the whole Trig lore these ships should have had some sort of nosferatu bonus as well, not as big as Amarr bonusses, but something. This would help them out a bit.

Unless of course CCP has something else already planned and / or in the works. For example a full faction or T2 versions of the precursor ships. I could fully see a Demavik type interceptor or a Vedmak HAC or a Leshak BLOPS in the game, or a mix of Amarr and Triglavian faction ship line.

If this were the case then there is not much needed to do to the current line of them as that would mean they are true T1 ships, though faction sinks and precursor rigs still should be implimented.

(dewk) #301

Saddly these “new look” ships ( possibly the sexiest looking) have had no feedback from CCP, even with almost 300 responses in this topic other than @CCP_Falcon opening post.

Sure theres been the Damavik midslot addition on the test server, but many question how this has been done.

But other concerns and issues brought up by the community go unanswered.

Its been pointed out the Triglavian ships have low EHP, yet have extremely limited low and mid slots to counter this, and to add to that the requirement to use these limited lowslots and RIG slots to improve CPU and/or Powergrid shortfall.

So the question is why is there no responses from CCP (@CCP_Falcon, @CCP_The_Funk, etc…)

(Fluffy Moe) #302

Yea I know, they really need to throw us a bone on these, or make some sort of a general announcement that T2 Trig ships are coming next year on unspecified date, or something. Not nothing. At least then we would have a better idea of where we stand with them.

(dewk) #303

At least we now know the current ships are akind to the Naval Faction ships, and we’ve found where there shortcomings are, and offered suggestions on how to address these.

We’ve seen the Damavik midslot suggest taken, but saddly it appears its been done in a questionable manner.

We know to address the low EHP, due to the very low shield HP. But to do this requires using minimum of 2 rig slots and a high lowslot use count, this is made worse due to the poor CPU and Powergrid capacity, which requires the same slots if you try to mount a full setup or a T2 fit.

Once rigs are made available for the turrets we might see a fix for the turret powergrid and CPU requirements, but its only a small fix if we ever see these rigs.

(dewk) #304

Well the Damavik update is active, love to hear from others as to what they think. Was loosing the lowslot worth the extra midslot, or should CCP just added a mid-slot with no sacrifice of a lowslot?

(Ildrara) #305

None of my low slots were loose. When I assemble a ship everything is tight.

That said. My ship didn’t change much. More cap stable and a bit less damage.