Dev blog: Triglavian Technology - Ships & Weapons

Jenn_aSide · May 25, 2018, 6:53am

This is a good example of missing the point, like most of the replies to Yiole’s post did.

I’m not as extreme as Yiole, I actually like Abysal Deadspace as a diversion. It has it’s upsides , such as how with the filaments you can do them anywhere, at a time of your choosing, that they require some actual piloting and that while they still adhere to the EVE way of doing business (ie you can be PVP’d coming out of them), they can be enjoyed without outside interruption.

That all being said, They are kind of more of the same was Yiole suggests. On the test server they are ALREADY just about a “solved problem” (Random trig waves not withstanding). They WILL devolve (like burner missions) into something that has a very few surefire ways to do, and people with do that, and nothing else.

The (old, mostly created prior to 2006) PVE that EVE players actually do (despite they fact that CCP has been stuffing PVE into the game since 2009 and most of it is very unpopular or downright un-used) gets min-maxed too, sure. BUT, because most of that content won’t kill you, it’ offers lots of opportunities for experimentation for those of us who want that. In that way, the old content caters to both kinds of PVErs (min/maxers and tinkerers).

Most of the newer stuff like drifters and burners and shipyards and npc mining fleets ect either require gangs of your own or is so punishing/deadly that you’d be STUPID to try interesting ways to beat them unless you were on SiSi.

Yiole and I are completely different PVErs on what we want, but both of us can see what it seems a whole lot of you (and CCP) can’t in this regard. The old PVE actually gets used.

And this is true despite the fact that for the last 9 years we’ve seen the exact same pattern: CCP puts out new PVE, PVErs rejoice and proclaim that CCP is listening and that this is the future we’ve been waiting for. People do the new PVE for a week or a month, but soon afterwards they are right back to saving that damn Damsel or clearing out that same old Pirate Haven/Sanctum.

At what point will people including CCP wake up to the reality that while PVErs might say they want some things, their actions dictate what they really want?

Yiole_Gionglao · May 25, 2018, 7:04am

I just love the way you find the right words. “Tinkerers”, that’s it. Some like to tinker with their toys, others want a challenge instead of a toy, but when you’re selling fun, tinkerers mop the floor.

LEGO is a giant. Scale model kit makers aren’t.

Some people just love putting those bricks together instead of worrying about messing up piece A-9.

Dyver_Phycad · May 25, 2018, 7:04am

That’s mostly because most of the new PVE is absolutely not rewarding for the amount of effort you have to put into it. Ship yards require 4 Titans pounding it for an extended period of time with no respective guaranteed income. FOBs require 2 battleships to pound the structure for over an hour for 40M total reward and by now worthless Standup modules, which also ruin the market for such modules constructed by player. NPC mining fleets are nothing but a nuisance, which not only destroy you, they also mine away the ore that you need, and they require a fleet to defeat them without offering any rewards to that fleet. I am not going to start on RW or Drifter Incursions.

In other words: Except for Incursions, all the new PVE CCP introduced is nothing but a waste of time. A waste of time, though, that you must do because else you cannot do other PVE activities in a system without getting destroyed.

And now you have to deal with Abyssal space, too, which can just due to bad luck cost you a or several ships worth 300M to 700M for nothing in return. Just because you had bad luck.

Yiole_Gionglao · May 25, 2018, 7:15am

Amen. That’s before even comparing it with nullbear carrier ratting, but then highsec Vs nullsec would be a different matter…

Nocobo · May 25, 2018, 7:22am

no one in their right mind would attack a lone leshak(2,5dps, 2 large neut, large smart), it will be immediately capital drop. Leshak will be the best bite ship ;-).

Jeremiah_Saken · May 25, 2018, 7:26am

it’s what @Dyver_Phycad wrote, it’s not because old pve is good, it’s because old pve has better rewards, and most of pve players are ISK/hour min/maxers. If AP have best rewards everybody will do them, because of ISKs.

Mizhir · May 25, 2018, 8:14am

Gods forbid that CCP actually makes content where people have to think.

There is a reason why there are different tiers. So people can find something that suits their playstyle. Sure, tier 5 are going to be very difficult and require a lot of minmaxing, but it’s like you are applying the tier 5 arguments for all of the tiers. However tier 1 and 2 can be done in t1 or faction cruisers without too much hassle and there are many different fits that work for that. So it offers a low entry point that doesn’t require expensive ships or loads of skillpoints. And you can just stick to lower tier sites if you don’t want to put the effort into doing the higher tier ones.

Judging by your arguments it sounds a lot like the new content you want is an exact copy of the stuff you have already be doing, thus it’s not really new. So I don’t really think that CCP can do much for you with that attitude. But I am excited for new PVE content that isn’t mindnumbing boring.

erg_cz · May 25, 2018, 8:18am

That 2,5 DPS is absolute max. Which means most probably glass cannon (no tank), which 4 mid slots seriosly limite range control ability. An you need almost 3 minutes to get to that 2,5 DPS. Get out of range once and leshak is normal BS damage dealer again. But interesting logi.
There is a number of PVE opportunities, that require 2,5 DPS or go home. 9/10 Escalations for angel, for example. You can do it if you bring friend or alt, but you have to share reward with friend or multibox, which many of us would hate to do. Here is the solution how to not use capital ship for them. All that leads me to the very special niche for that ship : PVE boss bashing.
Depending on ammo cost ship can be used as pocket carrier for WH sturctures bash. Or not, if the price will be too high.

Vedmak is a puzzle for me. Seems like the most usable ship from all 3.

Damavik is a very weak for solo PvP, IMHO. 2 mids mean very poor range control and weapon type has no falloff + damage reset after out of range. Neuts are the only hope I see here. But its bonus for reper make it an interesting fanged logi, like Leshak…

Blood_Ravager · May 25, 2018, 8:27am

Awesome! Consider me HYPED!!! The new ships look amazing!!!

Erebus_TheChin_Sundance · May 25, 2018, 8:29am

hey!.. I used to have that game. Dont knock it.

That was THE FUTURE once.

Solace_compiling · May 25, 2018, 11:08am

frigate fights are usually over in 80 seconds so i can see this maybe becoming part of large frig fleets that tackle larger targets and larger scale engagements

Desert_Ice78 · May 25, 2018, 11:54am

I note that the weapon will reset once it disengages but what if the weapon did not turn off once the target had been destroyed but would continue to build power as it switches to the next target that is locked?

zluq_zabaa · May 25, 2018, 12:13pm

Very good point. If it was somehow doable it would be great to have a 1-2 second timer in which the damage is not reset to base value. That would allow for switching targets.

erg_cz · May 25, 2018, 12:35pm

Than it is called ‘BFG’, and not some ‘desintegrator’

Anderson_Geten · May 25, 2018, 12:41pm

remember, the ships are supposed to go together. remote cap/armor are a thing to use on those ships.

remember the people shooting fobs with spider tanking BS ? it will be the same. just in <20min with three leshraks

erg_cz · May 25, 2018, 1:02pm

Their weapon uses ammunition, remember? With current state of Abyss most people will farm tier 1 and 2 only. And if there will be no BS ammunition blueprints , than 3 Leshaks * over 20 minutes will eat so much ISK , that you will probably hire merc to clean your system.

Anderson_Geten · May 25, 2018, 1:06pm

what makes you think there won’t be BS ammo bp ?

Yiole_Gionglao · May 25, 2018, 1:12pm

Well, silly me, I think that adding more agent missions would be a easy and quick fix. Otherwise I’m totally open to new solo PvE that follows these design principles:

doable in less than an hour login to logout
dependable (you’re rewarded each time you do it)
rewarding (in any sense: earning isk, have fun, allow to share EVE with other activities…)
reward creativity (fai, allowing suboptimal tactics)
gets expanded regularly to avoid staleness

These guidelines are a sum of 8 years of experience with PvE and PvErs. Nothing CCP has done for PvE since 2011 respects these principles and, unsuprisingly, everything they’ve done has failed/become a tiny niche.

Not to mention that there is nothing sandboxy in a content that’s been designed to be used in one and only one way, with death and loss as punishment for not toeing the line. THAT’s mindnumbinlgy boring in my opinion.

erg_cz · May 25, 2018, 1:19pm

I was getting it in Teir 3 up. And it will take time till players will get into Teir 3 Abyss. Of casue there are few players, who are spending hours after hours now on Singularity, who will run tier3 to 5 on Tranquility straight away, but the rest of us, who has other duties but Eve, will hardly go over Tier 2 at the beginning. I have had time to run 4 or 5 tier 3 in singularity so far. And survived once. No way I will risk 500 milion in ship and implants on Tranquility. Players, who will have 100-200 Abyss pockets done in Sisi before the patch hit Tranquility, will run all tiers, but there will be very few of them. So I expect battleship modules and ammunition to be rather expensive…

Jeremiah_Saken · May 25, 2018, 1:24pm

Most of those points are actually in AP, you just fail to see it.