Dev blog: Triglavian Technology - Ships & Weapons

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(Yiole Gionglao) #82

LOL.

I already got that sorted on April 14th:

  • doable in less than an hour login to logout -check
  • dependable (you’re rewarded each time you do it) -fail
  • rewarding (in any sense: isk OR fun OR chitchatting OR doing other things while you EVE) -fail?
  • allow suboptimal tactics, aka reward creativity (say, run Level 4s in T2 frigates for the lulz) -fail
  • must be expanded regularly to avoid staleness -fail?

Probably now I would consider them a total fail in the “rewarding” entry, since RNG makes them kind of a PITA even if they don’t kill the player. Whether CCP will keep adding stuff like this is to be seen, but chances are low.

So it’s 1 success, 3 total fails and one likely fail. Veredict: FAIL.

(BTW, I am not against new PvE content. I just happen to be right when pointing that CCP sucks at figuring what kind of new PvE content will succeed, basicly because they don’t look at what works and listen to a lot of people who either don’t PvE or PvE but aren’t aware of why do they PvE)


(Arthur Aihaken) #83

Is the irony lost on anyone else that you have to run PvE content to obtain the new PvP-based ships?


(Jeremiah Saken) #84

You didn’t sorted anything.
1 - check
2 - check (you will have drops each time at least I think it will be that way)
3 - check (just because you don’t like it everybody should feel the same?)
4 - check in lower tiers propablly
5 - we don’t know yet, it’s very new content.


(Yiole Gionglao) #85

It’s not irony, CCP knows that null will find ways to get all the PvP ships they need to break the meta a little more.


(Mizhir) #86

Except the Abyssal sites do live up to this.

  • They take less than 20 minutes to do and can be done anywere
  • Each of them drop loot
  • You earn loot you can sell, they are fun to do
  • The chaotic nature of these sites is exactly what rewards creativity. Most other PVE content follows the same pattern.
  • These sites are randomly generated which means you will never get two identical ones. So the staleness is vastly dimished compared to running missions, which are the same ones over and over.

Have you ever done the event sites? They live up to those principles as well. The issue with the RW and FOB is that they arrived to the game prenerfed and then CCP completely ignored them. But it’s still possible to fix them.

Stop telling yourself that there is only one way of doing them. There are 56 different cruisers you can enter the sites with (38 if you don’t count logi and ewar ships), and for the lower tier sites most of these will do fine. At high tier sites there is still variance. I have seen people run them with fits that are vastly different than the ones I use. Death and loss is a punishment no matter what you do in the game. People can also lose their ships to missions.

And don’t forget that the Abyssal sites also serves as a testbed for a lot of new technology for making PVE content. New missions with the old technology will just go as stale as the old ones, but new technology will give CCP more tools to expand upon PVE content.


(Obil Que) #87

So here’s the fundamental problem with these points

Dependable - What you’re asking for is 100% predictable which has been time and time again a point of complaint from the player base. There are, of course, players who want mindless, endless, predictable content. It exists already. There isn’t much reason for CCP to create more. People talk of “new missions” but who really cares if you have to shoot 15 of xyz rat, or 15 of abc? It’s all the same and doesn’t really add value or push the content forward.

Rewarding - Please don’t tell me that your preferred content in EVE is one you can do while doing other things? Stick to mining then. The playerbase and the sandbox isn’t going to grow catering to AFKers. We have enough AFK content in the existing PvE.

Suboptimal - There are plenty of suboptimal tactics in Abyssal Space. The problem isn’t whether you can be optimal or not. The additional challenge of this content is that if you fail to meet the bar of beating the content, it beats you back, hard. It isn’t the “easy mode” endless respawn L4 missions where you can warp out, rep, warp back, warp out, rep, warp back and “beat” the content through cheese that your opponent (the NPCs) aren’t allowed to do. It puts you in a place where you either win or die. For a game like EVE where loss is real, it is a refreshing change to have PvE content that embodies this ideal.

Expanded - Hard to speak to this on initial release but the content framework is set up to be far more dynamic than adding some mission text and another pack of NPCs to kill. New filament weather, random effects, pockets for different ship classes all are simple to imagine and can keep this type of content fresh for a long time.


(Yiole Gionglao) #88

[quote=“Mizhir, post:86, topic:78371, full:true”]
Except the Abyssal sites do live up to this.

  • They take less than 20 minutes to do and can be done anywere[/quote]
  • Each of them drop loot

…unless RNG and/or gankers kill you.

  • You earn loot you can sell, they are fun to do

…unless RNG or a disconnect kills you

  • The chaotic nature of these sites is exactly what rewards creativity. Most other PVE content follows the same pattern.

Being conditioned into elarning what key to press based on the lights on the panel is not creativity.

  • These sites are randomly generated which means you will never get two identical ones. So the staleness is vastly dimished compared to running missions, which are the same ones over and over.

LOL, I dare you to come back in a year and say that with a straight face. :rofl:

Have you ever done the event sites? They live up to those principles as well. The issue with the RW and FOB is that they arrived to the game prenerfed and then CCP completely ignored them. But it’s still possible to fix them.

I still was active for the first events. Was a effin PITA to jump 30 to 60 systems each bloody night to maybe find or not find a site and maybe compelte or not complete it and maybe get or not get the reward that maybe was crap or maybe wasn’t. Can’t drag myself back to that kind of thing, frankly, I moved to testing Ishtar vs Level 4 after Frostbite.

Stop telling yourself that there is only one way of doing them. There are 56 different cruisers you can enter the sites with (38 if you don’t count logi and ewar ships), and for the lower tier sites most of these will do fine. At high tier sites there is still variance. I have seen people run them with fits that are vastly different than the ones I use. Death and loss is a punishment no matter what you do in the game. People can also lose their ships to missions.

And don’t forget that the Abyssal sites also serves as a testbed for a lot of new technology for making PVE content. New missions with the old technology will just go as stale as the old ones, but new technology will give CCP more tools to expand upon PVE content.

Blah, blah, blah. CCP said the same when they developed dungeon building tools in 2012 and gave us Burners instead of new agent missions. :roll_eyes:


(Loreline Farcloud) #89

Wow strong opinions been thrown about here about simple speculation by players about content that CCP have only mentioned in passing.


(Dark Engraver) #90

Actualy the sites are designed for you to think about what you do not press key x to receive a banana.I supose thinking is hard nowdays especially after we’ve had so much stale content that you can bash your damn nyx into for lols(i did it and still do it too it’s easy isk after all until they decide to nerf it)


(Arthur Aihaken) #91

But I like bananas…


(Sebat Hadah) #92

i dont know if you have noticed this or not but your t3 trig space and up is bugged and unplayable. fix it. while its all well and good you show us this fascinating junk its all for not if we can never get to it! a week ago people on the test server were talking about “over spawning” of trig battleships in abyssal dead space. well its STILL happening. FIX IT!

as i see it right now if the abyssal dead space scaled with ship sizes then it would be better. i dont think that t2 cruisers are good enough to actually finish the content. maybe even allowing small groups of players, like no more than 2 or 3.


(Jenn aSide) #93

This “better rewards” excuse is false. One can make more blitzing burners than regular lol 4s yet regular lol 4s get done more often according to the pve round table at last years fan fest.

Ditto blitzing PvP 5s, fw missions even after the last rebalance, wormhole pve. The most recent additons aren’t worth it but lots of other post 2008-9 pve can be more lucrative than what people actually do.

Anomalies, mission and complexes are more popular for lots of reasons, probably the biggest being they dont normally kill you.


(Sebat Hadah) #94

and another thing. if this goes live as it is no one on tranq will risk the cash and their most valuable modules to do this. this content will flop. i for one refuse to risk any deadspace or faction mod on this when it hits tranq.

when people realize that the risk vs reward is crap no one will run the content. Just like drifter incursions.


(Dark Engraver) #95

Giant plasma torch ships ready to 'mine’you to death will be incentive enough, MORE than enough ,everyone loves new ships even more so if the new ships can be used and it’s not some crapy thing like a shuttle.


(Anderson Geten) #96

I will.

I lost ships in resource wars. I lost ships in FOBs. I lost ships to burners. I lost ships in fw. I enjoyed it. I will lose ships in abysses. and I will enjoy it.

I don’t do resource wars anymore. Because … so many things to do, so little time. But really not a time I did it for the reward. That’s why I 'm sad.


(Fluffy Moe) #97

Its not useless. They make a hell of a short range brawler ships with their smartbombs and turret. Especially if you have 2-3 of them in a group cause they also have rep bonus. May eliminate need for logi in some situations.

I will say however that it is very situational, but not useless.

Now for solo L4 blitzing for example, it may be useless indeed.

I wonder how a group of these would do on FOBs also curious on the frigs and their potential for burners. Haven’t had the time to play with fits and group comps yet, but I’m sure someone will come up with something.

The trig frigs and cruisers do seem to have relatively high base velocity which can help them close and keep up with targets. But unfortunately they are armor ships and a lot of armor fits will negate velocity (for example armor rigs have movement penalties) or if you try to compensate with astronautic rigs, you get penalties to armor thus negating their strong point.

So not sure how all that will work out, we’ll see.


(Jeremiah Saken) #98

No, it is not false. RW fail because of it also FOBs and other group content because it is hard to balance group rewards. Tell why most explorers don’t do data sites? Almost no ISK in them comparing to relics. People won’t do burners because they need specific fits, why bother when they can half afk do L4 and still pull good amount of ISK? AP are not all pve in EvE, they will be just small chunk of it. Don’t like it don’t do it. They are stepping stone in pve.


(Arthur Aihaken) #99

The number of ‘ghost’ data sites after Tuesday is going to be phenomenal…


(Nana Skalski) #100

Thats some pretty UFO I would say. CCPls give me.


(Ildrara) #101

I wonder how many staff they are going to dedicate to reimbursement. If a d/c equals ship loss they are going to be very busy.