Dev blog: Triglavian Technology - Ships & Weapons

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(Dark Engraver) #162

People who managed to skill for it have begun using it for small scale pvp in wormholes or to kill tougher targets like small numbers of caps/fax in null when such targets are available.
So far I’ve seen it used with tons of utility neuts leaving rr to the dedicated logies however saw a small fun fight where 4 vedmaks acted as dps and logi for their gang leaving the more powerful utility to other ships like huginn/ lach


(dewk) #163

well I’m interested in how they fitted them.

I’ve fitting an Leshak, in Pyfa and in game, and had a hard time getting it good enough to fly solo.

normally its issues with powergrid and/or cpu.

normally it’s a case of sacrificing something to get something else in, sure it’s got -50% cap activation costs on the smartbomb, remote armour repair and Neut/necro, but the T2 disintergrator by itself is a massive 17,400MW of powergrid use and 342tf of CPU use before skill and implant mods.

remember the bases are:
CPU 625tf - 342tf = 283tf for everything else
Powergrid 17000MW - 17400MW = -400MW
Note this is before skills, implants or ship modules are added.

The Basic isn’t much better 15,900MW and 270tf.

Now yes with skills the base figures are better, but I’m pointing out how very tight the powergrid and CPU fit is.
I can push it up to 21,250MW and 781.2tf before ship modules and implants, but it’s still tight when you have to counter the poor range and tracking of the turret with med and low slot modules.

I’ve still had some fits where you need 2x TrueSansha Reactor Controls, others only one and a power Diag, and all ether sacrifice something to keep with the CPU limits or had to have an Processor Overclocking rig installed.

as for PVE fits, most I’ve seen sacrifice a slot or two (yes empty slots) just to fit the basics on, and even then they still require at least one T2 reactor control unit to maintain the powergrid limit.

eg.
[Leshak, Leshak PVE]

Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Entropic Radiation Sink II

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Thukker Large Cap Battery

Tairei’s Modified Large EMP Smartbomb
Heavy ‘Vrykolakas’ Energy Nosferatu
Heavy ‘Vrykolakas’ Energy Nosferatu
Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator II
[Empty High slot]

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Hammerhead II x5
Acolyte II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Salvage Drone I x5

Occult L x1000
Mystic L x300

P.S. this isn’t one of mine, just an example from someone else with just as high skills.

There are many other examples I have, but not found one that I’d say works perfectly like most of us could say they could do with one of the main faction battleships, without having to downgrade to medium modules just to get what we need.


(dewk) #164

yip I’ve seen the Vedmaks been used very well in packs, and that’s another thing, the precusors favor fleet tactics more than solo.

there’s the other side of the problem where a lot of players are trying to fit these larger ships for solo combat, even though CCP has been subtle in trying to get across these ships fly in groups.

but it still doesn’t address the limitations of the ships and their primary weapon. the tracking and firing range of the turret, the finite CPU and powergrid, and the missing module slots (as noted in the above post when compared to similar Amarr Battleships of standard design), be 2 less than the Apoc and Abaddan, and 1 less than the Arme, and these are basic battleships where near identical ship stats.


(Dark Engraver) #165

They doing fine thus far to point at that pve fit of yours I use 2 leshak with 4 rr each works great


(Nevyn Auscent) #166

Remember it only has to fit 1 turret vs the 7/8 of the Amarr range you quoted. So it’s actually several slots ahead of the Amarr ships because it’s 1 turret is the equivalent of 6-8 turret slots on a normal BS.


(Marcus Gideon) #167

Such amazing discussions we have around here! =)

This addresses the issue of having extra utility high slots. But it doesn’t address the aforementioned tank issues (how much longer it takes to recover HP). And it doesn’t address the fact that 7-8 Amarr guns could be used to fire on 7-8 targets if they really wanted. Not that I’m complaining about that last bit, I think the Death Ray is a cool mechanic. I’m a big fan of my Vedmak, even if the ammo is ridiculously overpriced.


(Nevyn Auscent) #168

As an armour BS, it’s shield regen rate isn’t exactly significant. So I don’t really see that as an issue. Now it’s armour EHP, maybe that’s a fair argument. But do you consider it good balance to allow a ship which is basically designed to be an ideal spider tank also then fit for giant armour EHP? Or do you think that the lower EHP might be a deliberate design decision to counterbalance that ease of cross rep fits for them.
And yes, those 7-8 Amarr guns can fire on 7-8 targets if the Amarr pilot wants to get laughed at and achieve basically nothing (ok, certain PvE it might achieve something, but that’s vs ships weaker than pods)


(Fluffy Moe) #169

So… its been a while since these came out and I thought I’d give my feedback on them, at least the Demavik and Vedmak, since I don’t have Leshak and all its skills at 5 yet thus can’t give appropriate feedback on it.

  1. Right off the bat, they need faction damage mods and rigs for better fit choices. If Rigs + faction damage mods would bring their DPS too high then just go with non-DPS rigs but they do need them.

  2. IMHO, and I know peoples opinions will vary, the slot layout on the Vedmak would have been far better and staying true to its lore and form, with 3 mids and 7 lows instead of 4 mids and 6 lows.

  3. They lack some powergrid. Need slightly more. Can’t fit a decent tank without sacrificing too much on the Vedmak. On the Demavik its kinda expected as frigates don’t have much room for tank anyways. All the ships role bonusses require use of very powergrid hungry modules to be fully effective in its role (or split role). So need more powergrid to accomodate. Alternately, give the hull some more role bonusses such as 10% PG reduction on smartbombs neuts and remote reps. That would help it fulfill its design.

  4. Bad resist profile. Too difficult to bring it up to level of other cruisers in the game without dipping into DPS too much. This could be alleviated by the above mentioned slot layout change or powergrid change, if no resist profile adjustments are made.

  5. DPS too low. Its wound up DPS ends up being under what the current available faction cruisers have, but they don’t have the wind up penalty, except maybe the drone boats as drone fligth time could be considered as such, this does. If faction mods and rigs were available, this might be OK, depending on how much of an increase there is.

  6. Vedmak sucks in Abyss. This is a nonsensical thing from Lore stand point. It can do the lowbie Abyss sites just fine, same as any other cruiser, but at the higher end it sucks. It ought to be the other way around. From lore, its origins etc. everything, it should excel at Abyss and all the other ships should suck. But its just not the case.

So these are just my observations so far. Hopefully these things will get resolved.


(Fluffy Moe) #170

They basically stuck an armor plate and removed a low slot while kept the PG drain in them. That’s the feeling I get from my Vedmak.

As far as solo vs fleet, irrelevant. 1 does not have to, nor should neuter the other. In fact, in my mind they ought to be far more solo friendly, from lore and just plain “making sense” perspective they should have been the de facto meta for high end Abyss sites, and they aren’t. Thus by default they should have been more solo friendly.

Versatility is a ships strength, these seem to have a lack of it despite their role bonusses, along with lack of PG, decent resist profile, better applied DPS, etc.


(elitatwo) #171

You do know that precursor ships are classified tech one right?


(Fluffy Moe) #172

No I did not, I thought they were more as faction ships, but their own not a mix of any 2. But even then, they still need at bare minimum rigs, faction damage mods for the precursor weapons. And if they are T1, unless further development is relatively soon, then they still need looking into.


(Dark Engraver) #173

You dont get it


(Nevyn Auscent) #174

Faction ships also use T1 resist profiles.


(elitatwo) #175

Faction ships also have a dark green marker on their picture, those do not.


(dewk) #176

yip the RR in a fleet setup is great on the leshak, but solo when you’re doing self repair and trying to keep defense up it’s a fit.

The smaller ships seem to be a be bit better. But as many point out the powergrid is an issue.

The extra mid slot on the Les would help counter tracking and lack of falloff that the turrets have.

The comment about shield hps not being an issue for an armour tank is a bit short sighted. If the armour hp or resistance countered the @3000hp difference the Les has below nearly all t1 standard battleships i would agree.

Ccp say in lore the precusor dont rely on shields, so why is its default setup near identical to other t1 standard ships of the same class in their hull and armour stats, and even the shields are identical in resistance, its just the shield Hp and regen that seems wrong.


(dewk) #177

I think one reason some get confused is the number of reviews comparing the les with nestor.

The two new ships are t2 ships, basically precusor versions of the Pacifier and Enforcer. Interestingly no Marshal precusor version. These ships appear to be better, but hard to say until we can get our hands on them to test them.


(Dark Engraver) #178

What do you keep blabbing about if you mean tiamat and hydra they’re AT prizes.


(Marcus Gideon) #179

Those two new Precursor ships… are ONLY available in a limited number of BPCs that will be awarded to the winners of the Alliance Tournament. They are not releasing them to everybody. At most, there will only ever be 50x Cruisers and 50x Frigates. Once those are destroyed (because people inevitably get it into their heads to use those trophy ships for PvP), they can never be replaced.

So I wouldn’t start comparing them to anything we’d regularly use in the game. Collector’s Edition ships don’t matter for game balancing. Because there aren’t enough of them in use to make a difference.


(Dark Engraver) #180

By his replies I wouldn’t put much effort into engaging in a debate with him.
Clearly clueless feels entitled to his silly opinions,thinks he’s right


(dewk) #181

That maybe true, though they are like most special edition that have been release they still in game.

As for the comment about the marshal equaliant, its just a comment.

As for Dark Engraver’s comments, he comes across like an Star Citizen fanboy, and fails to see past his own personal view to see others point of view or to question what CCP have done. Have love these sort of guys…