Devblog: CSM Winter Summit 2019 Meeting Minutes

If the game is in maintenance mode, they just hired a ■■■■ ton of people for no reason.




here’s some free content @CCP_Rise :slight_smile: please implement something new soon

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No ■■■■,where is it


Do you think scope of a problem match action?
I certainly think not.


Nothing…got it.

No ■■■■

Talk is cool

Talk is cool

You guys keep talking its cool and by you i mean all randoms in CSM it hardly matter as always


Democratic STV with multiple candidates from the same entity only ensures that the entity with the greatest backing gets representation, even if unqualified or disinterested in the overall health of the game.

Hand-waving away an entire demographic of the game that is notoriously uncoordinated and decentralized as though they “didn’t vote”, while simultaneously failing to acknowledge that this demographic often isn’t even aware of what the CSM is, only goes to ensure stagnation.

You can’t represent by majority. This is why the United States has Electoral College which, even despite its many failings, ensures that metropolitan centers aren’t consistently the only voice in the room.

CCP needs to take on a meritocratic approach, taking on the voices of people who actually represent different avenues of the game besides self interested null-sec coalitions playing capital games so far divorced from the rest of EVE’s content that their game mechanics don’t even overlap with other areas. This is a process that desperately needs curation, and this CSM is blatant evidence of that. We have a voice. We’ve told you repeatedly what the issue is. Constantly saying, “then vote” is not only defiant against that voice, but a slap in the face of those speaking it.

Stop being complicit in it.


It’s not a system I like or buy into.


Including dead accounts which ccp showell in your favor …
You are just socket puppets which HAS same function before, but today are completely obsolete …

What exactly do you expect us to do besides talk?

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Disappointed. No vision. Changes are to risk-averse.


The reality is that the STV ensures that only a minimum number of folks get elected from a single entity. If they had a different form, the greater organization of the big groups would likely see even more of them getting elected. Now, massive groups like Goons can only be assured of three, maybe four slots at best.

There’s no way around this. Elections are decided by the people who show up, and the candidates who are most organized.

There’s no easy way to do this, and no guarantee that the final product would be better than what exists now. It sounds to me like some folks just want to have somebody on there that looks like them, regardless of whether they do anything. I don’t think that adds much value, honestly.


BriscRubal says that instead there should be better ways to demonstrate yourmembership in groups and give players a way to wave their flag

Yeah, of course, because we don’t have enough flags already to fly around with. This can only come from Brisc. :facepalm:

CCP Goodfellastarts by showing the DAU since just before EVE Ascension.

:joy: Dümmster Anzunehmender User. Acronyms are fun sometimes, even in tragedies like CCP.

Skills on Demand

Why was the titan skillbook price not increased to 100B ISK? Why was this sensible measure to curb titans not suggested by CSM?

BriscRubalsuggestsintroducing a delay to get fighters in and out repeatedly to counter attempting to defang a Carrier. CCP Fozzieasks if adding a timer would be an issue.CSM does not think it would.

I hope that Brisc realizes that fighters already have a delay, in particular fighters with special attacks that have charges.

Jin’taanthinks that the CSM is not happy with people not dying in space and that needs to change.

Then get the rubbish titans, supers and rorqs out of EVE. These ships prevent other people from dying because they offer superior, indefeatable defense.

CCP Shreddyasks about cleaning up the right-click menus.

Move things to the radial menu. I want to be able to remove bookmarks via radial menu, for instance. I want to use the radial menu on more locations like in Show Info windows, Asset window and so on to set destinations, add way points, show info so that I do not have to use right click. And on that note: CCP should work a bit on reliability of the radial menu. Sometimes it just stops working completely and I have to switch hot key back and forth to activate it again.

Sort Dragonmentions that online shopping on the couch with SKIN for cash would bringthe game into the modern age,so to speak.

I wonder if that disgusting whale meant this sarcastically or genuinely. Considering it’s sort I guess it was meant as he said it. Modern age, my ass. Ripping customers off already paying customers with more payments for things that should be included in the subscription. Truly the modern ages.

CCP Guardnotes that ghost sites don’t communicate well enough why their ship was blown up on a failed hack.

There’s an explosion. And the warning notification clearly says that you will end up as a wreck. Look into your game before you wonder about things.

Innominatesays that any skins thatare more than a paintjob are really good.

Of course CFC would give CCP ideas for broken skins.


bzzzt, wrong.

They’re increasing headcount.

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Don’t mind me, I’ll be here removing off topic posts and attacks on ISD.


And that is exactly what has happened with this election. Beyond that, limited candidacy to a single candidate per corporation/alliance wouldn’t change anything either because it would only have these representatives run on alts in other entities. The issue is much deeper than that and it lies with the process itself, as I mentioned with democratic majority.

There is - hand-selected representatives by the developers themselves who represent different avenues of the game, backed by actions, not words or popularity contests.

The irony is that that is exactly what the CSM is as it currently stands: Figures who say they represent null-sec, wormhole, or other demographics, but are ultimately backed by the amount of people who recognize their name, lobbied for their support by association. I don’t think that adds much value. There is an incredible degree of stagnation in areas of the game that consistently go without representation for years (see Faction Warfare) because there is no way to unify them, and no way for them to have representation otherwise.

In addition to the fact that the CSM is largely unadvertised until election season, there is no prioritization to ensure that players who have the right to vote know what they are voting for, who they are voting for, or what have you. There wasn’t even an easy-voter search site implemented with this CSM and researching candidates was largely up to those who were both informed and patient enough to do so.

This CSM - every CSM - has a responsibility to change that. Simply saying that “well they should have voted” or “there’s no easy way to do this” is an easy cop out, and I understand that the easy way is preferable. I encourage this CSM to take on the task, though. In fact, I beg you to take on the task. Please change this so that we can have meaningful changes to the avenues of the game that have, for years, been left to the wayside. Don’t wait for someone to be elected. Don’t wait for that change.


Fair enough
I expected more from minutes in general.
I hoped for more focus from CCP.
I am venting my nerd disappointment over official game forums.

Limiting the candidacy to a single candidate per corp/alliance will not work. It will be gamed. As long as coalitions can make tickets they suggest their voters follow, it won’t matter if there are artificial rules in place that will be ignored in spirit, even if followed by the letter.

That’s extremely time intensive for the Devs, and completely contrary to the spirit of the CSM, which was designed to be a voice for players to the Devs, not a selection by the Devs of people they wanted to hear from.

This is how elections work in real life, too. Folks get elected for a variety of reasons, not simply because they were best for the job or the most knowledgeable. It’s an election.

You’re assuming that because a CSM member can get elected, that they can ensure that CCP handles their area of the game. That’s not the case. Otherwise, Sugar Kyle would have fixed all of lowsecs problems when she was on the CSM.

Part of that is on CCP, yes. The other part is on the CSM candidates. Folks should expect to see people actually campaign. I busted my ass last campaign to make sure folks saw me. That’s one of the reasons why I won.


You don’t want alliance skins?

The delay is pretty fast, and you only have to refuel if you used a charge. When was the last time you tried defanging fighters to watch the other guys play hanger games?

No, not if they cost even more PLEX. And absolutely definitely not if that would involve anything remotely close to pink. Seeing CFC on grid already makes me puke, seeing them with coordinated bee skins or pink pyamas would make me barf even more.

A couple of days ago, in Delve. I am fine with that as it keeps them from doing other things that actually harm me and they are distracted.

You just repeated what I said in different words…

I was part of the CPM for Dust 514. I know the limitations of the CSM. I know that you have a direct line of communication to CCP, whereby the issues can be brought up. Even if it not in CCP’s immediate interests or a high enough priority, you have an opportunity to funnel the issues the players are reporting to them. But if you say…

…then the status quo continues and we continue to scream into the void.

Nevertheless, congratulations on your victory, Brisc.

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How much has Shreddy butchered the Agency by now? Or has this work progressed at all?