Devblog: CSM Winter Summit 2019 Meeting Minutes

As much as we like to joke with people to “not be poor,” one of the benefits of the game is the ability to buy a subscription using in-game currency, and folks want to be able to plex their accounts. There are a lot of people who will stop playing the game if they can’t do this affordably.

If the price goes too high - to the point that players have to spend all of their time grinding isk in PvE - bad things happen.

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Have you considered the Skiff? It’s tanky enough that most hostiles look for easier prey.

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I have looked at the skiff and it too is lacking. If you try to fit it for tank and mining you end up with an empty mid slot because you don’t have enough CPU/Power Grid. Also it is weak versus the high sec gankers. CODE is killing tank fitted skiffs with 3-5 cats in .5 systems.

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Try this

[Skiff, Skiff]

Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Power Diagnostic System II

Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Vespa II x5

Arkonor Mining Crystal I x2
Bistot Mining Crystal I x1
Scordite Mining Crystal I x1
Veldspar Mining Crystal I x1

Don’t be AFK. Someone attacks you, point them, drop drones, and kill them. Because I’m looking at those 0.5-0.6 kills. Those pilots are AFK, or the Skiffs are fitted like crap. gank cats don’t point.

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WTF?

Are you guys daft?

Character Attributes is one of the major guiding forces connected with skill training as well as other game mechanics. Removing character attributes would require a complete re-work of the entire game resulting in the removal of a lot of items associated with it.

I sincerely hope all future CSM members will discuss important concerns and issues with CCP, not propose insignificant ideas that will ultimately disrupt and break the game…

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The Fortizars there are all faction fortizars, too.

@CCP_Dopamine is a Pole? :grinning: How many Poles works for CCP?

Economy problems accumulating. Plex prices, SP trading (farms), lack of ISKs sinks. All reasonable players told you that before introduction of SP trading. It will mess up everthing. Supers will be everywhere, ISK inflation, PLEX problems, but greed is good right? Now cluster is stagnat at best and countermeasures from summit don’t looks like they will change it fast enough.

Maybe it’s time to lock out high end hulls from SP injecting? Diminish return from injector is not enough I presume with supers focused character. In theory injectors supposed to help catch with others, not to help build power creap.

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> The CSM members bringup a fewof their own examples, like theinterestingdata that Goons have which isn’t available to everyone.

What data would this be then?

Ask anybody over 18yrs from the AUTZ - it’s a fact of life. Has been for near going on a century. Isn’t The Judge AU?

Not knowing how something works, not exactly a qualification of credence.

“CCP Guard asks about having a mystery SKIN box for the discontinued skins where the players make a profit no matter what. CSM thinks this is fine.”

A mystery box??? as in RNG for old skins?
Why does this idea smack of lootboxes in the cash shop…???

This is not Star Trek Online, this is EvE…If i want a particular skin we the player base should be able to select what we want to purchase…not purchase a box with a low chance of randomly receiving what we want!!

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:brain: Concerning Attributes :brain:

I formaly request further information, or at least a bit more than “we would like to remove them”

Let’s imagine they are removed, what is the proposed outcome?

Would skills directly loose the related attribute values? Would all skills train at the same base value/speed? How would attribute booster implants work, would they be amended to a generic boost rate like a accelerator, or would they be retired completely?

Aside from just saying stuff, could we think this through with some transparecy as It might actualy be a really good idea.

:thinking:

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Actually, it’s not a terrible idea to have ‘lootbox’ style old skin mystery items. Folk who like the gamble and can afford it will buy them, and then sell the ones they don’t want (possibly all?) for isk, which makes them available to players like you and me.

As long as there was some kind of grading, like ‘frigate box’ or ‘faction X box’ to limit the options of what it might be, and they’re priced appropriately, it’s viable. Hell, maybe make them a LP reward or some such rather than Plex, given there’s plenty of Plex sinks already.

As someone that’s explained character attributes to new players looking to set up skill programs for themselves, it confuses them and adds difficulty in understanding which implants they should be using. You have some that are very much concerned about optimizing their skill training time and will feel like they have wasted time, and will probably stop playing as a result (I personally blame the whole “rush”/endgame mentality").

Also, a complete rework of the entire game? There’s a few approaches they could take where that isn’t needed, and re-purpose the implants that made use of attributes into something else (like skill categories).

Because that would then lower the value of the cosmetics that don’t sell. It’s the same approach as booster packs, something that’s literally replicated everywhere but has no real complaint when dealing with physical trading cards.

By offering them up at a random chance, they all have value as opposed to only a few having value.
It’d just be a matter of making that random chance “fair”.

I agree, I think it’s absurd that players who never use the official forums get voted on to the CSM.

That’s what happens when people aren’t encouraged to use the forums.

Yeah, I agree it’s a bit confusing at first for new players, especially since there’s a lot of stuff to learn right from the start. However CCP can easily code in a basic ‘Capsuleer’ tutorial that explains Jumpclones, Implants, Skill Training and Attributes.

And yes, removing Attributes would require a complete rework of the game. It’s more than just simply assigning a different skill aspect to each attribute for all Implants available in the game. Players have J-clones already set up for specific tasks with specific attribute implants installed.

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Tough, I have no sympathy for your circle of friends.

If they like the game as much as they say, they’ll sub if it gets too hard.

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I think we can both agree such things won’t be a part of the tutorial for the sake of not making it over an hour long (despite how useful it’d be to have).

As far as having task-specific jump clones, they can be a thing with revised implants and the removal of attributes. It’d actually require some work and preparation on CCP’s end (as well as the players wanting to reimbursements for the changes), but it’s possible.

If you don’t like the CSM and their decisions, put in your bid for CSM 14. Or help the newer players perfectly content with mining in null to PLEX their account.

@Erebus_TheChin_Sundance @DeMichael_Crimson @Taloris_Aldercain

Regarding Attributes:

Right now, all attributes do is:

  1. Lock players who know about them into a training plan which may be sub-optimal for actual use, but optimal for training. (I’m Int/Mem mapped, so I’ll train X Y and Z, so I don’t train slower. I won’t train W, which would be handy, but I’d get fewer SP)
  2. Confuse new player into thinking they’re actually meaningful, rather than just arbitrary numbers which can be moved around. Like they are in other games. (Being really intelligent means I’ll learn everything faster! And I’ll increase my charisma so npcs like me better!)
  3. Discourage PvP because people are in their +5s training clone and don’t want to risk the implants.

So, if I had my druthers, the following would happen:

  1. Everyone’s attributes would be set to the same level, so skill training is flat across the board.
  2. All Attribute modifying implants would be removed, or modified (so Slaves no longer modify attributes. It’s not like people plug in Slaves because they care about the training speed.)
  3. Skill training boosters would be added to LP stores. Flat boost to skill training, roughly equivalent to +1s to +5s. Like the Accelerators, these would be durationed (longer duration) and persistent across podkills.
  4. Attributes would no longer show up anywhere in game UI.

The cost for the boosters is variable, but I’d lean towards the longer duration ones being a little more expensive than the shorter duration ones, per day. Just so people pay for convenience.

At no point would I want these in the NES. (in case someone thought I was suggesting that.)

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That’s an empty phrase as I have been killing so many learning pods recently, and there are citadels with instant, non-timer clone switching.

And another person wanting to remove secondary skills like these CCP muppets. Ever heard of asking other people what these things do or reading about EVE? No? Why are you using EVE then? I have never had these issues at all.

Users who know about them only use them actively when they don’t use EVE, ie during vacation or for skill farming. And these unfortunate Min-Maxers do it and then complain about how terrible EVE is after they ruined it themselves. I have not remapped in years, I train whatever I like at respectable speeds without implants and instead concentrate on what is fun. I use implants and remapping only on chars that I do not regularly or actively use to train up certain things faster. I only use implants during vacation when I cannot use EVE anyway in order to make some faster progress.

Implants and attributes serve a purpose and removing them only makes training more expensive.

Of course you don’t want that. Considering that CCP has already created a precedent for buying SP for RL money, they certainly don’t want to follow that path.

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