And you’re doing your usual pedantic routine dear. Why expect anything of value toward such behavior?
You made a claim. I’m asking you to provide actual evidence. You can get as evasive as you like, but it doesn’t change your lack of actual evidence.
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Also there’s this: the Triglavians’ meddling has visibly altered the stars’ EM output, and the difference isn’t subtle. They’ve also been hitting worlds with mutadaptive tech that seems to be doing … interesting things to the biosphere, including residents.
Now, either the stars’ output has been greatly altered in some way and the modification of local biospheres is a necessary adjustment for the preservation of life in response to a problem the Triglavian Collective caused to begin with …
… or, the Triglavians are mass-bioadapting plants, animals, and human beings (technical subset of animals but different ethical considerations normally apply), non-consensually, more or less just for funsies.
Care to stake a position on which precise kind of horrible the Collective is, Ms. Brezia?
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The same kind of horrible as any given empire, just with a more recent claim to that horribleness. If I’m to be perfectly frank.
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Then you’re a fool. If I’m to be perfectly frank.
@Arrendis , I don’t think this one’s worth our time. There’s no whiff of honesty, no acknowledgement of the sheer scale of what’s happened, just obfuscations, redirections, and “facts” invented out of thin air. It’s nothing new from a Kybernaut of course. It makes me sad to think so many of us are like this. She’s not even worth listening to because I can’t trust anything she says to be the truth as she understands it.
If you can find something worthwhile or at least entertaining to do here I’m glad, but … yeah. I think I’m done.
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Ms. Jenneth. I am a fool. She is not. Stubborn, yes.
While we do not condone the actions the Collective have committed thus far, we cannot be blind to our own past. Though we have never seen the actions the Triglavians have done specifically, conquering worlds and their populations to claim territory in a hostile manner and/or directly or indirectly tampering with the biosphere as a result of the occupation is nothing new.
And I’m disappointed in you, to resort to name-calling. Kyber. She is not. No more than I am. Would you call me a Kyber for the time I was imprisoned due to my inexperience, and foolishness in putting on an active bioadaptive suit? Having to live with it for a year?
I do not stand for what the Collective has done, and though it is unique in its approach, the actions as a whole are not.
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She does a really good job of acting like one for someone who isn’t, Mr. Vas’Hiigara. And on this subject I’m a little glad to disappoint you, actually.
The actions of the Triglavian Collective can be described as alike in kind to things one bunch of humans has done to others off and on throughout history-- but not at all in degree.
Mind you, Sansha’s Nation’s approach to slavery differs from taking prisoners generally and TCMC’s in particular mostly in terms of degree. The difference between treating a captive well and literally draining their blood to make field rations can also be described as the degree to which their autonomy is respected.
Degree is important. It’s the difference between a tap on the shoulder and a kinetic missile strike, the difference between a kiss and an industrial accident, the difference between a snowball and Caldari Prime.
Or, the difference between invading a world to tap its resources and warping local spacetime to steal its star. And then involuntarily bio-modifying the locals so they can maybe live through it long enough to be conscripted into your forces.
Our nations have not done this, Mr. Vas’Hiigara, if only because they lack the capacity for this kind of thing even to be an option. Maybe we’ll get there. For now, there is no reasonable comparison to be made. It’s not that we’re incapable of it morally, but that we’re literally incapable of it.
I’m a bit disappointed-- not only that a purported non-Kybernaut would indulge in this kind of equivalency, but that you’d back her up in it.
Let me lay this out as clearly as I can: I have waited, sometimes with great frustration, for a crisis to arise sufficient to get the Amarr and Matari partisans to work together, on pretty much anything. Sansha’s Nation didn’t do it. The Drifters didn’t do it (for more than a few individuals).
The Triglavians finally managed it. I will fly with and even under Captain Elkin for this. Once that was an easy thing to say; now, not so much. But it’s still true.
If you cannot understand why, I think I have no desire to impress you, Mr. Vas’Hiigara.
Our empires have never twisted the very stars themselves to the point of rendering inhabited worlds no longer so without extreme, induced, involuntary mutation and permanent corruption of the entire biosphere.
Trying to claim ‘oh, we’re just as bad’ is a false equivalence not even Napkins would buy. So fine. I can accept she’s not a fool for the things she’s saying. She’s just a liar.
But, you know, also a fool, for expecting anyone but other fools to buy the fedo feces she’s peddling.
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That I do understand.
And as far as equivalency goes, I admit I came at the argument half-cocked. But as for backing her up? I have to. She is mine, as I am hers, and though we disagree on many things I will always play the part of the fool to stand by her.
If you cannot understand why, I have no desire to engage in the conversation any more than I have. I will take my leave and bring her with me regardless of the outcome. For it is late, and we must rest.
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I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised that these people wouldn’t immediately call anyone who disagrees with their narrow interpretation of events as being a Kybernaut. Typical in group and out group mentality, if someone doesn’t immediately align with the Empires then they align with the Triglavians. How it’s always been and always will be, which mind you i’m perfectly fine with. Plenty of solid Kybernauts and Intrigurre have been made from the Empires inability to distinguish, it’s practically a form of recruitment in and of itself.
I also think Miss Jenneth has a rather amusing habit of downplaying the inherent maliciousness of Empire forces. No one needs to look any farther then the war between the Caldari and Gallente to see the long term effects of their reign, resulting in genocide and countless dead spread across numerous star systems. No one but an idiot would think that the Empires somehow wouldn’t engage in something on the scale of the Triglavian collective as though they haven’t for years, it’s just not as obvious as warping a star. Even then, that’s only from the things we know.
I also think that the idea that the EDI forces are united as remarkably amusing in and of itself. Anyone who gone into Abyssal Deadspace and run into Disparu knows even CONCORD has their own agenda in all this. The empires will continue to see the Triglavians as both a threat and an opportunity, playing off against one another and selfishly squandering resources to serve their own ends.
The fact of the matter is you’re outdated, no one has to slave themselves to the Empires anymore. Other options exist, and the Triglavians are just one of many. But i’m proud to say we’ve opened the door, breaking the iron grip of the Empires even in their own heartlands.
Yawn. ‘moo-hoo-hah-hah, you all fall into our plans so easily, let me twirl my mustache some more’.
Gonna go ahead and say that no, even the Amarr Empire hasn’t done anything on the scale of forcibly mutating the populations of multiple temperate planets into something no longer human. They’ve just treated the populations of multiple temperate planets like they weren’t human.
I know the difference might be too subtle for yer cartoon-villain mind to grasp, but I promise, it’s there, and it matters.
Oh me oh my, the slave holders don’t think they’ve ever done anything on the scale of warping a handful of systems? how novel, please, regale me with your literal sainthood darling. Or don’t, and spare me the needless proselytizing. The Amarrians would dump chemical weapons on any world they couldn’t fully subjugate in a heartbeat to serve their ends, I know because i’v seen them do it.
That’s besides the more ‘minor’ war crimes that slip under the radar every other day. Well, I say slip, but really militia’s murdering civilians is a form of proving among the empires itself. An open secret at that, when you spill innocent blood it cements your loyalty to the cause, and for Capsuleers it’s how they sort the wheat from the chafe.
All you got for me is emotional appeals, attempting to sway people on the visual horror and inhumanity of what the Triglavians have done. But if you seriously think the collective is the worst New Eden has to offer then you’ve just not been paying attention.
Even the common people of Empire space can be a thousand times more cruel then a Triglavian, maybe I should start distributing recordings of Anvent Eturrers final moments just to hammer in the point.
I see. Although, I would hope my own loved one would point out to me the error in my thinking. Gently, and probably in private rather than on the public stage. I don’t think I would want someone to join me in error only out of affection. Let my mistakes, even my humiliation, be mine alone. I’ve had enough of leading people wrong.
That’s me, though.
I might feel a little differently about all this if I hadn’t spent so much time watching what the Triglavians actually did. As it is, it’s hard to be dispassionate.
Anyway, sleep well, the both of you, Mr. Vas’Hiigara.
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Trolololol. Get a clue who you’re responding to before you open your mouth. It’ll spare you looking like a complete idiot as you make assumptions.
Thank you.
It is hard to be dispassionate, especially as of late. And perhaps you are right. Some time later, when passions have cooled, I’d like to discuss a few things with you in private.
For now, that is my final word. Whenever you go to rest, I wish you nothing but the best.
Exactly the course I’d take w/my partner, too.
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Why? regardless of where you’re from or what you do you may as well be a Holder in this moment for all it matters.
It might keep you from proving my point the way you just did.
Oh, gods and spirits, Mr. Arnolles.
I’m the kinda-sorta defender of the Empire.
She’s the Matari partisan who frequently makes it hard to tell whether she actually wants to burn the place or whether that’s just the impression she feels gives the best results, diplomatically.
What point? You could of been a Minmatar freedom fighter whose spent her whole life trying to break the shackles of slavery, but you’re still giving them excuses. Whether due to ignorance, misdirection, or blind zealotry, doesn’t matter really.