Do you HONESTLY believe CCP wants more solo/afk miners around, instead of less?

The poll is bland and lacks other options. For example: Do you believe CCP wants more multiboxer / auto input / botting / rorqual / orca mining in their game ?

Or: Do you believe CCP is a little bitch of CSM / Goons / whateverelsenullblob and is in actual fear of not giving into their whining in their overall game design, especially in mining since this poll focuses on it while at the same time continuously losing respect and actual increasing numbers of playerbase that are not a part of the above ?

You need to include things such as this in your pols if you want to get serious about them.

It’d be like throwing pearls at swine, Fluffy Moe. :slight_smile: (or however the exact saying goes)

Nobody ever has said American when talking about anything but the U.S.

Except, of course, when deflecting as you just did. America is the country known as the U.S.A. North America is the continent consisting of the countries you mentioned. I wish people would learn that difference.

It’s like the morons that are constantly conflating weather and climate.

I’ve had plenty of people thank me for specifically and correctly calling USAmericans USAmericans because - when you actually care about being accurate instead of being stupidly general - Canadians, Mexicans and everyone from South America are, without a doubt, also Americans living on the Americas.

Accuracy is important.

In modern English, North and South America are generally considered separate continents, and taken together are called America or the Americas in the plural. When conceived as a unitary continent, the form is generally the continent of America in the singular.

I refuse to do what the Average Joe does, aka lumping them all together. The fact that people who live on the Americas, but aren’t USAmericans, actually THANK ME for it should tell you something.

I am not deflecting anything. This is a forum on the internet and it’s not actually filled with the smartest cookies, also thanks to the fact that there is no paywall and no heavy moderation making sure there are high standards (like on StackExchange, for example).

I am beginning to think that you are reading too much, too often around here and that the average has started affecting your ability to think straight. Just like in every social environment the people you hang out with affect and influence you, and in an environment like this one that’s definitely not a good thing.

You’ll eventually just end like all the others. Growing more and more bitter until you had enough, snap, and get banned yet again. Usually people blame CCP for that and never actually self reflect on what they did wrong. I’ve gone through the whole length of bans in the past and it took me a long, good while to figure out why my behaviour keeps changing the longer I’m around. I’ve figured it out and I hope for you that you will too.

You’re a shadow of your past self. Seriously. You lowered your standards down to the average, which around here, is rock bottom.

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if Mining was a little more involved like we have to monitor something or like keep on mining laser the certain temperature or something because it does get kind of tedious I tend to go off and rat after mining for a little bit but I love mining but I would love to see something a little more either in the Star Citizen way of doing things or the elite Danger either way would work just there needs to be something more to Mining then what there is right at the moment I know the ns will Lily go away from their ships for 15-20 minutes at a time so that would really make them mad especially if they did the Star Citizen route where you had to monitor everything

That’s a lot of words when all you needed to say was that you are the new forum pedant.

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This just underlines your problems. You remind me of the movie “Idiocracy”. You do not appreciate thoughtfulness and expression. Instead you prefer one-liners you do not have to think about, but instead can just effortlessly pattern-match over. I doubt you actually properly read and comprehend, but instead just scan through the words. Yet, I bet, you believe that it’s not also your fault that the forums went to ■■■■, oblivious to the fact that you are a part of the reason why it went to ■■■■.

I am not a pedant … I am accurate. It’s a big differentiator between those with good analytical skills (which requires accuracy and the ability to look at details and nuances) and … well … the rest. A big reason why this forum is ■■■■ is because of people like you not understanding that, as long as you keep doing as you do, this forum will just stay ■■■■.

If people wouldn’t just throw around words thoughtlessly, we’d not have this mess. Instead we’d have intelligent conversations lacking made-up definitions, inaccuracies and pseudo individualistic “MUH PLAYSTYLE” nonsense. The reason why smart people leave is because, without a paywall or proper moderation, the idiots take over. And “idiots” includes people who are incapable of understanding the difference between pedantism and accuracy.

Considering the fact that you don’t understand the importance of accuracy in communication (language barrier is an issue, of course, but apparently not between the two of us), I’ll leave it to you to figure out where on the “standards-bar” you reside.

So you can blame me for this badly made poll, sure, but what’s really going on is that it’s well tailored to the audience. Two options. Really simple. They understand. A better thought out poll would achieve nothing anyway.

Stop growing into the next Salvos.


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Of course I do. Just look at my responses to people that actually post that way. Though, to be honest, you won’t find many in this forum.

To quote you …



This is a bit toungue in cheek, but only a bit:

Ganking. When barge tanks were thinner and ganking wasn’t as punished as it is now, ganking was a real threat to miners.

You had to think about how to fit your barge (tank vs yield), where to position it in a belt, and keep an eye on who might be around.

I can understand your perspective, and I do not doubt that on a product / dev level there is ample focus on making players happy. But CCP is more than just that, and an entirely different beast - no matter the amount of marketing.

On the road towards the acquisition CCP stopped thinking about such things. Plain and simple, business. They’re not being forced, it isn’t about the player. It’s about venture dependancies and the bottom line. Completely different paradigm.

This obviously isn’t a nice thing to consider from a player perspective, but it is what it is, business. The player isn’t the goal, he or she isn’t even a magic means. If you have a bit of background in these matters it isn’t hard to recognise what model was applied for which goals through what stimuli of effects to change conditions which would not allow for a rapid model switch.

It being just a venture doesn’t mean it’ll be a bad experience. It’s just about managing and limiting expectations with a touch of reality checking of assumptions. It’s not like the proverbial player has driven the roadmaps or the decision points, particularly where it comes to old / core / venture CCP it always was a classic trap of who it is about, customer or core or company. It was never about the customer, and one of the biggest stumbling blocks for the core was always that the way EVE grew in its younger years was rooted in what they didn’t see coming, emergent behaviour doing the sales & marketing - resulting in the core chasing after what customers did & said rather than what they wanted to do.

Every bit of stumbling over the years has always come down to exactly that. So it should not have come as a surprise that a point came where the core started to clean itself up and trim itself down. Same as it should not have come as a surprise that venture dependancies became detached and disappointed. Same as it was unsurprising that Hilmar figured out that there was a hole in the bottom of the ship but fixing it was undesirable because life goes on and entropy is a bitch while times change.

Okay. I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing.

If you look at their behaviour since the acquisition, you could recognize a change in behaviour. From the top of my head: wardec changes, regular lore posts, moreregular security related posts, EVE Pulse, … Wars and Lore relate to Empire space, where a lot of unhappy people play. And remember the post about fw bots specifically? Empire space is in dire need of love, and that’s going to happen.

The increase in activity has its reason in their desire, or maybe requirement, of getting the bonus paid out. I am sure that they have no choice but to try doing everything right, plus the fact that some pressure is gone. They’ve spent at least a year attempting a boost in subs/players/accounts and likely and primarily monetization profits, all for the acquisition, and if you remember the times, you’ll remember that it was … a drought.

And now they even tackle wars, planned over many months. That’s going to change a lot.

It’s either desperation, or a more relaxed state without worries about needing money. At the end, their change in behaviour clearly aims at making players happy, monetization included. It is unknown if the population at large has shifted towards “cashcow” yet, but what we do know (safely assume, if you want), is that highsec - at least - will get an overhaul over the next months.

Because the players aren’t happy.

You’re not really looking at what’s happening. I understand that a company primarily wants our money, but they’ll make more money making us happy! Now they have no, or less worries, but the desire to reach the 200mill bonus. Milking only does so much. Growth of profits after that phase doesn’t happen by milking harder.

Oh yes, but I also remember why. Probably in more detail than most.

Maybe, I doubt it. It’s a niche / activity type of focus, high dependancy on iteration. The roadmap itself isn’t a shocker either, it’s still in line with what CCP put out to people at VentureBeat the year after that infamous return flight from Vegas.

That’s been ongoing for a while now. Did you think the bit about “omg X has been hurting our retention” came out of the blue? :slight_smile:

To be honest, it’s been demonstrated abundantly - complete with the figures - by players for years. Considering the pathways that move away from the traditional emergent behaviour model EVE, there’s a few more such things coming.

Honestly, if you approach it less as a game, more as a venture, you’ll see that while pressure and antes were upped, CCP’s venture management became more relaxed roughly 18 months after the summer of rage. They knew then that boiling frogs was effective.

Less meat, but more schizofrenic meat. Roughly the same amount of new meat popping in, but spending more. Still a hole in the bottom of the ship, but it’s been moved to another ocean with different water.

As for known / unknown. That’s not for these forums.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on where you look. Overall the demographical segments of EVE’s opiate economics likes it enough. Sufficiently to stick around and buy the shortcuts, increasingly even. The number of humans in the village going down has actually been beneficial to CCP. Think of it as reducing noise and it becoming easier to rewrite the narrative (and wipe out quite a bit of accumulated narrative).

No. I am sorry to say, this isn’t how it’s done. Let’s be honest, if you can replace a customer base in a business proces of optimisation because the yield is higher, you do it.

That is exactly what CCP’s venture level has done. There’s no beating around the bush here.

The terms and variables aren’t those of happyness, they’re completely different. It isn’t about catering to what makes people happy, it is about catering to provided goals by means of guiding behaviour.

You’re still thinking in terms of EVE 1.0. The player drives the variant of the sandbox and the company providers for this and iterates upon it. Let me be clear, if you can make more by applying the strictest version of opiate economics and get away with it, you do it. The getting away part isn’t defined by players, but by regulations and risk assesment.

In EVE 2.0 if you are happy, cool. But it isn’t the target. It isn’t even the means. In spite of the people who do the actual work making big personal efforts towards this. It’s simply not in the dictionary.

Hulks had their tank nerfed. Mack’s didnt get a tank change. Skiffs are the only ones that got a tank buff.
There was no global tank buff. what there was was providing miners a viable choice of tank vs yield. And some choose tank now while before there was only 1 viable barge.

It’s not the way I would have created this choice, 1 barge with more slots, pg and CPU could have created the same choices without it being hard baked into the hull, but it is a choice system.
And the belief that there was a tank buff actually means that decent numbers of miners do care about tank, but had no viable choices to achieve it before.

Based on one particular portrait and the history that portrait is attached to, EvE is not in a good place right now, and the devs who would do something about it are either gone or unable to act on it.

Solo/AFK mining is on the list of preferred playtypes, and the changes CCP have made reflect this.
Everything from buffing barges and passive hull resists to the friendly fire corp toggle and the new and improved Corp 2.0: Undeccable Version imply that CCP has no intention of encouraging mining players to either glance at their screens periodically or band together for assistance.
The Orca and Rorq changes underlined this in bright red ink.
The Rorq, thankfully, isn’t allowed outside of dangerous space, so it’s not hopelessly broken and has proved to be a marvelous content driver.
However, I’ve seen enough automated procs, skiffs, and orcas in belts to force me to acknowledge that this is a side effect and not even a tertiary goal.

If only I could get them to acknowledge what they’ve done to the game that I once joined.
A simple note, Falcon, that’s all I ask. A single line at the top of the next major kick to the balls that reads “We realize that this is not the change that some of you have asked for,”
That, at the very least, would say to those players who do not want EvE to get warmer or brighter that their input was noticed, because without it you’re peeing on my shoes and telling me it’s raining.

I think as long as those solo AFKers are PLEXing or subbing, CCP and their new overlords are happy.

Not if the forces of James 315 have anything to say about it. :slight_smile:

with a hole in the bottom, leaking water and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction. :joy:

Aye, it wasn’t even original.

Well, they did tried to hail me a few times, but I was so busy mining I kept forgetting about staying for a lesson in salvaging live mining ships.

Last time I had some real interaction with you was in 2014 to give you an idea on how efficient you are ganking mining ship not afk (I was afk that one time).