I love this.
The Amiga demoscene is still alive and kicking!
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I have 1 missile skill. I don’t really care to get more. Maybe someday when I get bored, but for now, no.
Will I fly a Gila? Nope.
Do I play eve like everyone wants me to play? Nope.
Do people get super butthurt about it? Yep.
Do I care? Gallente forever!
Does EVE have an elitism problem? Absolutely. If by that you mean all players must play exactly the same way or they should quit the game forever.
The Amiga demoscene is awesome!
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I see this appalling thread is still going. You commoners bore me. I could lend some enlightenment to this rabble but I am about to buy enough PLEX to feed an African village for a year but I must chase the starving children off my land first by releasing the hounds.
Try not to dumb yourselves to death in the meantime, hmm?
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Eat the children, problem solved.
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I find children to be too buttery for my tastes. And they don’t fit in the silver bowls I purchased for the hounds.
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I like gamy meat too.
For a virtually inexhaustible supply of long-term quality tears, visit the archived posting of the following characters:
Lucas Kell
Dracvlad
Salvos Rhoska
Dryson Bennington
and Herzog Wolfhammer
List is not comprehensive
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If I could be bothered, I could match any post you put up with a comparable CODE meltdown.
So add about fifteen or twenty prolific CODE whiners to your little list.
Gila huh?
Damn… I did lvl 3’s in a Drake. Switched to a Raven when I could do lvl 4’s. Lost it on the second mission too (Worlds Collide).
I think EVE feeling elitist depends on who you happen to meet.
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Only one village? Pffft you are too space poor. 
Quick thought about this again.
Wasn’t it originally that a soft version of “elitism” (not the actual real-world political thing) worked as a motivator for long-term contribution and commitment to the game?
Before Excavator Drones, Skill Injectors, F2P, Citadels with Asset Safety and some other changes over the past couple of years, there was a much different relation between [risk, reward, effort, brains, real money, organization] than now.
Progressing in terms of income and SP took often longer, mistakes were punished quicker and harder, the learning curve was steeper and you had a higher depth of (good) choices. At the same time, this meant that if you put in the time, were able to learn, were able to surprise yourself and others, you would be on the top for a bit. If you then formed groups around such players, they could be quite influential even if they were the minority. Maybe at that time, you could say there was some kind of “elitism”.
Now you have a much different relation between [risk, reward, effort, brains, real money, organization]. Many mechanics and gameplay options that used to offer a niche for the up and coming, have been simplified, secured against player mistakes, made easier to understand and to execute. At the same time, real money plays a much stronger role than before thanks to Skill Injectors. Excavator Drones, Rorqual changes, Athanors and Anom mechanics, have led to a steep increase in ressource allocation. In combination with some other things, these result in the option to quickly grow enormous “groups” that can yield rewards in such mass and in such short times, that many other aspects of the challenge have drastically lost importance.
That’s what I think is the (besides simplications) the loss of depths in the game. Under these circumstances, I would say there is, if anything, a different kind of “elitism”.
To compare:
Earlier you had the “elitism” of smaller groups of people, who managed to succeed the steep learning curves, be daring and inventive enough to reap rewards, put enough efforts and brains to be victorious in the face of the competition.
Now, you have the “elitism” of the anonymous masses in groups like the Imperium, most of whom (apart from the analysts, strategists, planners) had to put in little more than real money and rather brainless grinding in order to be on top.
This latter “elitism” compares more to the real world elitism, in that it is mostly mere ideology. As such it creates an explanation for > why < one is on top. For EVE, the simple fact of the matter would be a number of drastic changes made by CCP aka the god of the game. (For real life, it is more complex, but most of the explanation is found in what people used to call Imperialistic capitalism). However, since CCP is not god and certainly isn’t worshipped by people, rather often critizised by all sides, the truth would not allow for gloating in this case and certainly not for a self-image of “elite”. So in replacement of that, in comes ideology, which presents a digestible explanation for why a huge bunch of people who couldn’t prevail in the old EVE, are suddenly on top. This ideological explanation has the problem that other than the truth which it needs to avoid (CCP changes), there is not much of a logical base to build up upon.
Hence, it isn’t even real ideology anymore and turns quickly into esoteric belief, magic thinking and finally and lastly into “because I deserve it” thinking. This “because I deserve it” is what you would call “prosperity chauvinism” in the real world. Of course than don’t work harder than the others, of course they don’t contribute more smarts, of course they are just normal. Since they have it better despite all of that and since they lose perspective to better alternatives (because it makes them greedy, anxious, full of themselves, paranoid, nervous) they develop said “prosperity chauvinism” which is part of real-world “elitism”. Ignorance in terms of ignoring basic realities, is a huge part to support that mental building. As an example, such people will sometimes be mentally incapable of understanding the work load and working conditions of others. A pencil pusher insurance guy will believe he works harder than some guy in a coal mine.
I would assume, really just assume, that with ongoing time, the inner pressure in such groups grows, because this chauvinism doesn’t stop at the doorstep, but quickly turns inside as well. In return you’d see more pressure on the individual members of such groups to comply with orders and to bow before superiors, especially when it comes to expressing different opinions, in public and internally. You might also see a stronger culture of mobbing, humiliation and rituals of blaming.
So yeah, EVE may have the 2nd form of “elitism” problem today, sadly it lost the old “elitism”, which was way nicer.
It’s a bit funny, because it reminds a bit of the happenings in the real world over the last 30 years or so. The end of the Cold War marked the beginning of a giganteous re-distribution programm from the bottom to the top, only clouded by large technological steps around new media and information technology and also clouded by the false reaction of people to escape into religious fundamentalism. Since there was no extreme catastrophe during that time, many people in the global North seem to have a higher personal wealth (in exchange for higher extortability, dependability) and seem to have more personal choice (within the limits of buying products, while the number of life choices in absolute terms has sunk - a fact that is clouded by watching too many TV shows or mistaking 1 in a Million success stories with everyday life).
Now, what makes this so funny for me is that at least in the real world, I can see some form of rationality in the irrational move towards religious fundamentalism: there is only one world, who knows maybe there is a god, who knows maybe he or she will listen, who knows maybe this will makes things better for the believer, sure there are much better options than this, but for the timid mind, it might actually look like the only chance.
BUT in EVE, people know the god by name, people can clearly see what this god is doing, they can even reasonably understand his motives (the money) and much more important, there is not just one world. At any given time, they can reject this god, choose another world or whatever, without any risk. Yet, they decide to pray to CCP for mercy and betterment, beg CCP to make things right. This is much more irrational than religious fundamentalism in the real world.
Yo, just a quick thought.
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This whole topic has made me think a lot, esspecially about human psychology.
I feel this is the part that sticks out and makes me think about my meaning.
The idea of people who have been hand given success, and are confused why others are working for it, but some people enjoy the challange of finding their way.
The second elite get offended by this and begin to belittle people who are not taking the same easy road as them.
Maybe I am taking this too abstract.
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…
Ofc eve has an elitism problem. But when it comes to ships it isnt really the problem. Stupidity is. Personally ill say: just start flying battleships. You will use them in lvl 4s anyway.
And i agree with you. The gila is for lazy afkers.
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I really wish you would. I honestly sit and wonder who you could possibly be talking about when carebears say things like this. The fact that the proof is never ever presented is suspicious, though.
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Infinity Ziona!
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Was IZ a CODE. member?
Hu? He made a list, i added appropriately, no?
No exactly, I agree. What makes me curious is the reason for the 2nd elite to get offended, as you say. Is it that having the same outcome doesn’t yield the same feeling of accomplishment if the way to it was too easy? Does that result in some form of unrest within themselves, because what was supposed to give them a self-image of success, only makes them compare themselves with those, who had to prove themselves more to reach it? Can this finally lead to a situation in which objective success subjectively turns into a sour self-image of inferiority and to escape that dilemma they over-compensate by, as you called it, belittle others or gloat in ways that just feels a bit off?
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