Firstly, I’ll post and read whatever thread I want to.
Secondly, I’ll get back to you on a more reasoned response when I have time. My son blew up the maintenance bay. Okay, not blown up, blown up, but there was a fire.
Whatever he did made it go faster, but with the unfortunate side effect of it blowing up. I assure you, when I find out what it is, I will be most cross.
First, as is your right to, but it was more of an allusion to say that you would be less welcome if you - collective you, not you specifically - were not helpful in providing constructive criticism, which you have over the last few days.
And secondly, I do appreciate the attempt for a reasoned response, but I do hope no one was injured too severely.
I will stay out of your familial matters otherwise, as they are none of my business. I await your response when you do not have to deal with maintenance bay fires.
You want to reword and elaborate on this. I think I know what you’re saying, but I don’[t want to presume.
Are you saying that the four empires should stop fighting each other and the drifters? I see the comma and am pretty sure I have it, but your second sentence clouds the ice a bit.
Well, if we could get the empires to stop fighting, that would be a nice bonus, but I don’t think it would happen so easily. I mean that the empires should stop fighting the Drifters so we can determine the next course of action, be it whether we decide to actually call for peace at last, or declare war because they are irredeemable. I am, of course, being a little more cavalier about it, but that is what it boils down to.
It’s either we broker a ceasefire to debate with them for peace, or see see something that forces us to realized that peace with them has a cost that is to high for all involved. I do vote for peace, as you are no doubt aware, but if they try saying we must completely submit to their will and fork over our jump clones, then no.
We can’t exactly ask them to completely submit either, as it would not be fair. Instead, I suppose the Drifters might get CONCORD protection of their wormholes and that would guarantee we stay out of their places. The Observatories are a bit of a grey area and I don’t think we could approach that without knowing more about the Drifters and the Observatories themselves.
Again, I cannot speak for everyone, let alone the empires themselves, but I am posing ideas that may bring us closer to a solution.
I was specifically naming the powers themselves as to be clear that no power would be exempt from this if it were agreed upon. The Jove are a different matter, being just as enigmatic, so I would leave it open to them as to what they decide to do.
I’m going to go ahead and assume they’ll go with their current project, being an expanding cloud of debris and what used to probably be somewhat organic matter.
The Holy Amarr Empire and the Drifters are in a full state of war. No artificial limitations like the CEMWPA.
Now, while I am perfectly happy for genocide to be my end state, I am going to presume that someone in the MoW has laid out victory conditions that are more or less:
“Victory will be achieved when the Drifters no longer have the means to wage war against the Holy Amarr Empire and are in such a state that future abilities to attack the Holy Amarr Empire will be nil.”
Of course, given what happened, it is likely there can be no actual peace between the Holy Amarr Empire and the Drifters. Victory will only be achieved when the Drifters are eradicated from the cluster.
Contrary to what you might thing, it is the goal of the Holy Amarr Empire to end this Drifter conflict as soon as possible. I, for one, look forward to the day the war ends. However, for us, victory is the only way the war will end. I am not sure that any surrender, short of total and unconditional, will be accepted.
You’re wrong here. There cannot be peace without communication. Until communication happens, everything else is secondary. You even admitted it.
However, from my point of view, the barrel of a gun is a very good universal language. We’re communicating just fine.
Point two doesn’t matter. You could not get the majority of the capsuleer population to agree on anything.
The four powers between them control CONCORD. If they have ‘finite people and energy’ then so do we, because when they decide we’re getting too big for our britches, they can (at least in theory) simply tell CONCORD to shut down our clone contracts and the infomorphs’ ability to move through fluid routers. Poof, we’re gone.
Get the capsuleers out of Anoikis. Completely. Otherwise, this will not happen. While a potentially laudible goal, it’s simply not feasible at this time unless CONCORD does simply turn us off.
With those two things in mind, while I can certainly appreciate your intentions, you’re setting yourself for a massive amount of wasted effort and frustration that you don’t need to suffer.
I believe you mean ‘collective you’. (You did say to point out where revisions were necessary/advisable.)
Were the empires to stop fighting the Drifters, what indications are there that the Drifters would stop fighting the empires? They continue their attacks on empire research facilities and capital ships on a more or less constant basis. At this point, these attacks in all four empires have continued unabated for two years. At no point have they given us any indication of ‘if you’d stop spilling my beer, I’d stop hitting you, Bernice’, or anything even vaguely similar.
Rather, they appear utterly implacable. They have the means to communicate. They’ve demonstrated that. They do not, however, appear to have the inclination.
The Jove were enigmatic. They are dead. They won’t be doing much. Maybe mouldering.
You think ARC and SERAPH kill a lot of Drifters?
You should see how many we kill.
We are paying too much time to the discussion of the surrender. From the start I’ve explained that it’s just one of the paths and it is not required. Why are we returning to it?
I don’t really care about Federal ideas. Yes, I consider them disgusting, but if people want to live in filth, that’s not my problem, it’s theirs. My problem is when they attack us and try to bring their filth to our doors. And thus it is irrelevant.
By all this discussion I am getting a feeling that you want me to do the same with Gallenteans. Well, I don’t know myself a lot about Drifters, and, honestly, never were interested a lot in them, since I don’t consider them to be a threat that is greater than, for example, again Gallenteans. We are both at war, you with Drifters, I with Gallenteans. I never fight myself to break their will. And should I? That sounds more like terrorist’s job, and I am definitely not. My goals are simple: secure location A, destroy group B, demolish structure C, capture resource D. That’s what I’ve trained to do, that’s what I know how to do.
Should I instead go to Federal space and start murdering everything I encounter indiscriminately, until I break their will? Do you think that will work? Because so far I don’t think so, I just think that would be waste of my time and ammunition.
Maybe… maybe I should try your tactics against Drifters in our war against Gallente, just like a test run, but I don’t know, I really prefer more professional approach and more professional goals.
Does it work?
D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
I very much enjoy my work for Priano-haani. She gives me targets and doesn’t burden me with regulations.
Faster, pussycat - Kill, kill.
Okay, so let’s continue with this. People have told me multiple times in the past that they can communicate, and they have done so with us via various actions and shows of power, but for us to speak with them-
Communication is a two way street, and most of what they’ve done is one way, by committing regicide, defending their salvage of Jove Observatories, and otherwise shooting first when we get too close to their interests, and never saying a word.
The longer this conflict goes on, the less I care about how it is done, Virtues be damned. The Drifters do not seem to be affected by anything we have done, as they just keep coming back. No loss we can afflict will get them to turn, and they are too stubborn to talk with us.
So if we are to get them to stop at all, for even a microsecond, what would to take?
I am willing to put aside my naive desires to see this end peacefully to ask: what can we do that we haven’t already done? I have suggested talking, but none in this room have even suggested how we could go about it, only saying that it can’t be done because they refuse to speak with us.
So how, if it even is possible - because we don’t know either way if it is or isn’t possible - would we get them to talk? Don’t tell me how we can’t, tell me how we can.
The same way you get anyone to talk: Give them a reason to think talking will get them more than shooting. We haven’t. We have no idea of what will. If what they want from us is to be left alone, then exactly what benefit to them is negotiation? We’ve shown no inclination to even curb capsuleer activities in Anoikis, including unprovoked aggression against Sleeper drones and enclaves.
You want to get them to stop long enough to maybe talk? Figure out what they want, and find a way to offer them a chance to get it.
An excellent suggestion. Of course if what they want is us to be removed from Anoikis, I don’t see that happening any more than my plan for Redoubt’s occupation, because that would involve relocating people who make their livelihood in Anoikis, and like stated previously, we cannot make the entire Capsuleer population agree on anything.
That aside, I don’t think the Drifters’ goals are exclusive to our removal from Anoikis, otherwise they would systematically purge the wormholes system by system, and I do not doubt that they could do it. But they haven’t and that is telling enough.
They must be dedicating resources elsewhere, to some other project or goal. Why hang around High, Low, or Null? What resources do we have that they could want, besides the Observatories? I haven’t even seen them guard them or harvest from them in some time, just make daily patrols around those sectors.
So if we are to proceed, we need to understand the Enemy.
:points to Makoto: There you go. She’s working on it.
What the heck. What about me?
I’d say in your case, it’s a bit more laser-focused: “understand [how to utterly destroy] the Enemy.”
Your interest in understanding the Drifters is a bit more focused and targeted, Ali. Like ‘hey, Drifters, how can I reverse engineer your DD and fit it on a frigate?’ targeted…
I don’t think you give me enough credit. Victory can only be achieved by understanding the enemy. While we do focus heavily on the tactical aspects, SERAPH, and myself, pay close attention to everything regarding the Drifters.
Yes, yes, I know that I put on a show about only needing to know how to kill them, but that is only part of the equation.
If I found out they liked starcakes, I would be very interested. Of course, my next thought would be how to weaponize this information, but there you go.
Nanites. In Starcakes.
EXPLOSIVE NANITES