Likely? Sure.
But do they? Makoto?
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Only for special occasions, such as when a new anomaly is discovered and we want to poke it with every stick available. Otherwise, the differences are largely in size and objective. ARC focuses more on analysis, SERAPH focuses more on explode-y business. Functionally, our fleet operations are comparable, with adjustments for respective FC preferences and operational tempos.
As for this:
Clearly, we need to actually publish more of our research projects.
Belatedly, not to my knowledge. The closest is when multiple uiWHs are present in the same system, but that looks like random noise.
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Well, how about a brief run-down on what you’ve learned so far that isn’t apparent to casual observation?
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I cannot speak for ARC, but SERAPH has conclusive studies that show Drifters are 100% more likely to die when shot at.
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Well, let’s see.
- Drifter hive elements possess a neuromemetic component, obviously. There is debate as to whether this is an independently-arrived-at system, or whether its components can be resolved to a development on a known system, such as Jove-derived capsule technology, Society-mediated skillbook technology, or the like. The suggestion is that the effectiveness of this technology is based on its similarity to systems we already employ, which originate from the same source.
- Drifters do not appear to transit uiWHs the same way we do. They never arrive in the Hive systems, which suggests a three-waypoint wormhole system. There are competing theories about whether this is IFF-mediated wormhole generation, or whether it’s a stable three-point wormhole system, with the Drifters’ superior technology allowing transit to the path that isn’t ‘least resistance,’ while we are deposited at the point of ‘least resistance,’ spatially speaking, which happens to be the border outpost.
- Antipharmakon appear to be derived from IN-06 (Inferno) booster technology. Whether this is a minor evolution or a significant one is unknown. There’s on-going debate about method of action, and how an IN-06 derivative doesn’t melt our brains. One dominant solution involves piggybacking on Jovian-derived, Society-mediated skillbook technology.
- There is on-going study of the Nexus, and there are on-going questions about whether the Hives that appeared in known space transited nexus-pairs in the Hive systems we’re aware of, or were transited via unknown systems and processes. Either way, the question is the degree of Drifter control over and stabilization of the Nexus anomaly, and the potential risks they might face with partially-controlled use of a system that appears to have self-destructed or self-disassembled.
Also, can confirm, Drifters blow up when shot at. If anything, it’s the most satisfying part of an operation, next to when the Doomsday misses.
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If my excursions with you are any proof, I have seen the doomsdays miss quite frequently. At least the few times I have been around, as of late. Do we have an exact traverse rate of the doomsday weapon? We cannot see the weapon itself - as I suspect it is a byproduct of the damage dealt to the shields being absorbed, and being redirected as a means to shunt the unnecessary energy away from critical systems - but we can track the traverse as it is being fired.
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I’m quite sure that when she wakes up, Alizabeth can tell you the tracking speed of the Lux to the 1/1,000,000,000th of a radian, if she wants.
She’s a little obsessive. 
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Isn’t it something like .22 with a target of 20m?
I’ll have to dig it up.
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Yes. That’s a extremely high probability miss.
With regards to the Doomsday, it’s all about making the hit chance to a low enough probability to be acceptable.
I’m pretty sure Morwen gave you my THAC0 sheets. Please note that SERAPH still considers those to be classified.
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Maybe the word “political” isn’t correct one. But if the system in the core is criminal, it should be destroyed.
Unconditional surrender could be a good option, as you can demand them to invalidate the Federal charter. They will surrender when they either won’t have either will or physical ability to continue the fight.
But even that is not required.
When you advance deep enough and their military forces are weakened enough, you can simply decapitate their regime and forcibly replace it with your own. At first, it will be military dictatorship, strong enough to stomp down guerillas and dissent. And then you can do with them whatever you want. You can absorb them, take any territories from them, turn them into a client state, let them form their own government, or mold your own govermnent for them.
Of course, complete extermination is one of the solutions, but I always was against such outrageously abnormal methods. Amount of resources you will need for this path is astronomically larger than for the alternatives. And if you commit such horrific embezzlement you are risking losing all the corporate support.
And it is quite insulting to imply that a professional like me would go for the lest efficient method.
D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
You already are, war will never change a person’s thought, or what lies in their heart (politically). How many ships have been lost, how many lives extinguished? And what has this achieved? Exactly nothing.
Where is the efficiency in that?
Corra
Generally being spooky
Somewhere in Anoikis
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I’m not sure why, but I feel the need to remind that this is a discussion regarding Drifters, or for the fancy folks - the Vigilant Tyrannos. If someone absolutely must give in to their primal urge to rehash the same discussion on the Gallente-Caldari animosities - there’s like… two other threads to infest.
Now, if someone could take out the trash, like @Aux_Aliette , that would be swell, thanks, pumpkin.
So, onto what some have actually nicely called the Drifter Crisis. Before anyone asks: yes, I do have an issue in both ARC and SERAPH conducting essentially gunboat diplomacy. No, it will not stop me from working with ARC. When it comes to those vaguely jove-y lot, there really isn’t much of a “best course of action” to take.
However, I need to remind those wondering about hostilities in this case that it’s unlikely the attack on Empress Jamyl was random and an act against a head of state - and that the more zealous of you lot should probably take an inquisitive look into Carthum.
Yes, I could tell you the entirety of it. No I will not. Why? Because I kind of said it something like two years back and was completely ignored, and let’s just say not just by the community at IGS.
And since we’re signing our posts for whatever reason,
Trii.
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And here is the issue: they decide that. You cannot create a military operation with the objective to “decrease the enemy will to fight.” You can carry out operations to decrease their physical ability, but you might have to kill the last Federation citizen fighting with a sharpened stick.
Bringing this back around: this is why my stated objective for the Drifters is complete destruction. Every single one of them must be eradicated from the cluster, from the universe. Their structures will be so utterly demolished that no stone shall be left upon a stone. Their bodies shall be blasted into constituent atoms.
If they surrender to the satisfaction of the Sacred Throne before that happens, I will obey the Empress and stand down. However, I am prepared to go all the way.
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Really, dear. Really.
Out of all the people, you lot are actually the most responsible for kicking this all off, you know. I don’t think “we will kill them all” is an action right by all of us at this point.
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My lot? When the Drifters were first showing up, I was still living in Deklein, in GSF. It was only when the Drifters killed Empress Jamyl and invaded Amarr that I left Dek and GSF to go fight in the Succession Trials and the Drifter War.
I hadn’t even shot at a single Seeker or Drifter until the war started. But sure, go ahead and blame this on me.
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Indeed, it’s they, who decide if they have will to fight. You just keep your military operations to sieze control of their territories and population in order to establish military dictatorship, and at one point they say, “Enough, we surrender.”
The physical ability to fight is actually more feasible goal. You destroy their weapons, their fleets, their armed forces that can represent any threat. A Federal citizen with a sharpened stick, who would walk out to face an armored mechanized infantry? Well, that’s not really physical ability to fight, this is a physical ability to suicide. If it is a soldier and they wish to fight to the death to restore their honor, you shall give them that. But if that’s a civilian playing brave? Well, you can either kill them, or just capture and throw into jail. In any way, a federal citizen with a sharpened stick is not a threat, while he has no ability to cross into the State territory and hurt with that stick undefended State citizens and faces armed occupation forces and police instead.
I don’t know, I wouldn’t put my money on completely eradication of Gallenteans or Drifters. Gallenteans are just too numerous and in majority don’t represent any threat, slaughtering them for me feels the same as slaughtering a herd of overweight fat hedonistic perverted lambs just because shepherd’s dog bit your leg. And Drifters… I simply lack information about them and can’t give such an order against unknown threat. My attitude towards them is cautiously hostile.
Since you definitely know more about them than me, I will neither judge nor try to convince you in doing otherwise. I can say, that I actually can relate to this, and admit, that I did call myself some time ago for a complete eradication of another “species” - Sansha. Just because they aren’t human. And we can see what happened after CONCORD failed to cleanse them completely. The fight against Sansha is not a real war in a traditional sense. They aren’t humans, they are just machines, zombies. And in my humble opinion, every Sansha killed is money used with purpose. Considering CONCORD actually pays for that, such eradication will not be considered embezzlement.
I perfectly understand that and believe that this is a professional and valid solution.
I wish you good luck in your operations, and if you will need extra firepower, please don’t hesitate to ask, after all, they are enemies of the State as well.
D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State
You’re making an assumption. It’s not unreasonable, but it’s an assumption. You cannot make an opponent surrender. You can only kill them.
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I am sorry, I am afraid you misunderstood me. You cannot make an opponent surrender indeed, but you can establish control over them, their territories and assets with military force. My idea was that they might surrender by their own decision before it happens and you won’t need to apply the force anymore.
Surrender is a mental state. Even after generations of slavery, the Amarr could not make the Minmatar surrender.
So, if you take control of all their territories and force them to do what you say, they could still espouse the ideas of the Federation.
Which is why I do not have the stated goal of making the Drifters surrender. I always assume their ships and structures and bodies will break before their will does.
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In light of this information, I believe the priorities have changed. If anyone wants to dispute this with me, they are welcome to do so, only to revise it in the interests that it is something the current audience can agree on, including ARC and SERAPH. If you do not believe I can appropriately speak for you - because I won’t, but anyone who wants to follow me or agree with my goals is welcome to stay - then you can disown me or otherwise not associate with me, as is your choice. The goals are now as follows:
1: Cessation of hostilities between the Drifters and the empires. They above us need this more than we because we can come back, but the four powers have finite people and energy to expend. Since they cannot agree to cooperate to defeat this common enemy, we must do it for them.
2: Cessation of hostilities between the Drifters and the Capsuleers. While I expect smaller skirmishes between individual groups and the Drifters, I would hope to see the greater Capsuleer population ignoring the Drifters as I hope the Drifters would ignore us. It is difficult to enforce, but one can hope.
1-2 can be achieved by any means necessary, but the optimal goal is to do so without further conflict. I recognize now that what I am asking sounds naive, and quite frankly it is, but if it is at all possible, we must try. However, if such is not possible, then we will proceed to eliminating their capacity to fight.
3: Communication between the Capsuleers and the Drifters. Hostility cessation does us no good if we cannot negotiate terms of surrender, or get an understanding of the situation from the Enemy themselves. While it is still encouraged to seek out a means of communicating with them, it is no longer top priority.
I believe these summarize the nature of our goals, but if you see a revision to be appropriate or necessary, please inform me of it, and I will revise it.
But please, if you do not agree with these goals, or you find me and my ideals to be quite foolish, and you wish to inform me of such, you are more than welcome to leave. You do not have to stay and listen to me babble on if what I say is not considered of value.