As mentioned above, we are all familiar with what the Federation’s “liberations” entail.
Defend your space. Defend your people, we never wanted to impair neither.
But participate in attacks on lawful State assets and personnel, and we will show you how willing we are to defend our own just the same.
Aha! This is where is problem… finally I know. Simple miscommunication - and that is how wars are often started…
Haven’t you heard saying: “I don’t agree with your opinion, but I will fight for your right to say it” ?
Don’t know, who said it originally, or even if I have correct context, but gist is that even if I disagree with you, I fully respect your right to say it.
That is what I meant… I just didn’t expected that you will cut this simple part out of context and make it into “threat”.
And what about those planets that are currently under Gallente occupation?
Shouldn’t the Caldari have a right to defend their citizenry from their Federal occupiers?
Well, this is problem, nothing to disagree. One that has no simple solution. Military takeover solves nothing, in long-term. From historical perspective, Gallente and Caldari homeworlds were always very close. Unfortunately, Caldari’s is currently the one “occupied”.
Do you think that I have briliant solution, that even brightest military and political minds weren’t capable to find to this day? I don’t think so…
But this right to defend goes both ways. Some worlds on both sides of border have changed hands (some multiple times), regardless of what their population (or even general empire(s) citizenry) wants, or have word to say about.
Most of them (I think, didn’t visited border worlds lately) may even have mixed populations. What about them? Who should “own” them? Who should defend/liberate them? See? It’s not that simple…
I personally simply don’t know.
Yes, it is. And though Strike Commander Kim is a bit over zealous when it comes to serving her people, she makes a point.
Gallente aggression, or perhaps, to put it into Gallente vernacular, liberation continues to prevail on Caldari Prime.
Ive had many discussions with Ed on this, and have conceded that Caldari Prime is lost to us during those dark times. But it hasn’t ended there.
So my question is this. If the table was turned and Luminarie was under Caldari occupation would you be so dismissive?
So, this is is one thing we agree upon. I am not fan of aggressive expansion (or occupation for that matter), and I have always thougt that situation with Caldari Prime is wrong. Even my own sense of liberty has its limits… some things just shouldn’t be done. Homeworld should belong to its people, regardless its physical location. This may provide some logistical and political problems, but it is stepping stone to something better… But how it should be done?
And to answer your question. Probably yes, but not to the same degree. We Gallente are adaptive and tolerant, believe it or not. Maybe excessively. For someone who was raised within strict order, this may look chaotic and dangerous, but it works (mostly).
In fact, I may even, if situation was dire enough, take same stance as Miss Kim has now - just with less burning and killing… I am not fan of scorched earth tactics and terror. In fact, I hate it - regardless who does it.
Uhm, I should stop dictating this when sleepy. Hope you will get what I mean…
I have been thinking about freedom probably way more than it was needed. It is an evil concept which focal point is destroying the bonds, it is destructive, not constructive, it is targeted against people and what they have, it is quite inhumane, pushing ideals of entropy and chaos instead of prosperity and order. You become free when you divorce with your spouse. You become free when you lose your family. You become free when you lose your children. There are many bonds that make humans into who we are. Love, friendship, loyalty, posession of items, laws, morals, codes. All these are bonds, some of them can make our life worse, other make our life better. And for humans… it’s better to stay with other humans. We can’t survive alone, we do NEED friends, good friends, someone with whom we can share our thoughts, our ideas, our pains and our passions.
The freedom does not differentiate which bond gives you good, which gives you suffering. It just cuts it down. It is like a brutal serial murderer, it is the evil itself.
I do consider freedom worshippers to be irrational, evil cultists. But it’s their beliefs, and by enforcing freedom on themselves they hurt only themselves. It’s their problem, not mine.
On the other hand, there are freedom fighters. They are prohibited in many regions of space for being terrorists. They are the ones who FIGHT for freedom, it means they are killing, murdering other people just for the sake of their insane beliefs in this inhuman destructive concept. Difference between freedom worshippers and freedom fighters iss practically the same as difference between Sani Sabik, who worship the Red God and Blood Raiders - who actually murder people and bleed them for the sake of their crazy rituals. For me, Blood Raiders and Freedom Fighters are the same thing: a violent murderous cultists, who terrorize innocent civilians.
But now… you’re saying you’re going to fight for MY FREEDOM. Which means practically you want to fight to take away something from me. Well, what can I say… you surely can…
TRY.
I can even give you my location if you want, though I warn you ahead. You’re dealing with Caldari. You might succeed, but you shall know: Caldari always come back from what was taken from us. And return that with interest.
NOT THIS AGAIN !
I just spent hours trying to explain just the very thing you are nitpicking now.
Freedom allows you to choose. Freedom allows you to pursue your goals. Freedom allows you to strenghten your bonds, without forcing you.
Without freedom, we are slaves. Without freedom, we are automata controlled by somebody else.
As I said, while I disagree with you, I respect your right to say your opinion. On the other side, you are trying to take my own from me.
That is attitude of slaver…
And I don’t want to. No warning needed. I see, that you are unable to accept different opinion, that you understand only force and violence.
Thanks, I’ll pass…
Freedom doesn’t allow you anything, and such visible ‘allowance’ is just an option for you to fill the void of the broken bond that the freedom has created. With freedom, your choices are illusory.
Sounds as a words of a criminal. Every slave, every convict thinks only about the ways of breaking out of their prison and do stuff that is otherwise illegal.
Laws are created in order to restrict freedom of people to hurt other people.
Slavery is illegal in the State.
And considering slaver is a legal position in Amarr Empire as enforcer of law, it’s way better to be a slaver than a freedom maniac or murderous freedom fighter terrorist!
I prefer to stand for the LAW against the criminality, and those who think they’re free to hurt other people. Against those who think they have ‘right’ to enforce their ideals (like that freedom) by means of violence and mindless destruction, by killing those who disagree with them.
Said someone who was going to “fight for freedom”? Really? Isn’t it epitome of using force and violence against others whom you disagree with?
I do accept many options. But against those who are going to use violence to bully others into their beliefs (like, fighting for freedom), I’ll reply as it should be. With greater violence.
Wise men said that all the evils in our cluster happen only because good people don’t do anything about it. But that’s not about me.
I am not putting my weapons down when I see evil and injustice! I’ll better die in combat than will live a life in disgrace like a coward or a traitor!
I disagree. While some choices can be ilusory (or lead to similar results), others are not.
And I prefer to be able to choose, than to be forced to fixed path by somebody else - for those purposes we have drones…
Blind asumptions. And ultimate generalization. Also attack ad hominem, without true argument.
Laws are restricting freedoms, not removing them. Laws are needed, becouse without them it will be ultimate chaos.
While slavery is legal in Ammar, doesn’t make it any better. Just enforced by greater numbers and brute force…
Yeah, law is needed. No objection. And violence and mindless destruction is bad.
But disagreement (civilized) is part of progress - it just needs to find conclusion, cooperation…
Ad hominem again? Just because I don’t want to fight on your terms? We both know, how it would end - nothing would change that now. You just want to prove your own ego on somebody with different opinion. So you just want some easy target for practise, do you?
No, you don’t accept “more options”. You accept only what you choose. But your choises seems limited to only one option - more violence, That is no choice…
Than go fight somebody, who can make any difference, instead of picking easy targets.
If you want to die in combat, do it with honor somewhere it matters, somewhere you could actually change something…
Ms. Xer, greetings and welcome.
A note on Ms. Kim: arguments with her tend to be without end. Maybe there’s a path through the maze, but it remains hidden. Face her with a blade and she’ll respect you. After, though.
Not sure whether that makes it a good idea, but it does work.
Greetings Miss Jenneth.
Yeah, I noticed myself. For now, my blade is my worlds. Later though, it will change…
But thanks anyways.
You reap what you sow.
… and you bullied into my new garden and started to salt it first.
I want to believe the later part of that statement, but I cannot. I have see what happens to Gallente citizens when they say something which goes against the ruling class, or the upper echelons of your society. These people invoke their freedom of speech, just to be ruthlessly sensored by them. Slapped with court orders to shut them up or else they might just “defame them.”
In fact, I almost defected to the Federation, but when I witnessed the sheer hypocrisy of the so called freedom of open speech slammed shut on a Gallente citizen just because they were sensationalizing some stuff for a tabloid, I realized the Federation is no better than the State.
In fact, I would go to say it is more insidious. This lie of its citizens being free to say what they want, when really they can’t and they get slapped with litigation.
At least in the State, it’s not hidden. You simply don’t speak out against the ruling class.
I only made an offer to be friends with us.
I am not a gallentean, who rushes into others gardens with weapons, demanding “ACCEPT THE FREEDOM OR DIE!” or “ACCEPT DEMOCRACY OR DIE!”
We do believe our Meritocracy is the best and those who live without meritocracy are poor beings, but we never enforce it onto others. We don’t capture your people to abuse like your did to ours in hidden prison facilites. I do not point my gun on you and demand you to become Caldari or die.
I came to you with an offer on my hand and got in reply threats of violence of freedom against my person.
I don’t mind being rejected, after all, our ways are not for everyone, but… threats of violence for that?..
Speaking about bullying, right?
Well, I can understand that. I have grown up in military family, and I have seen a lot. So I will not argue about it with you…
Really? You came here with “Your people are bad, bad, bad, evil people, and should all die! Also, will you join us?” Erm, what?!
And your offer was “JOIN US OR DIE!”
Meritocracy has its merits, but letting somebody die of starvation after being injured and unable to work, seems quite cruel to me…
You judge myself personaly for something done by other people, who share similar ancestry. Uhm, What?
Yes, you do. But in more sinister way. You are trying to do what Ammar do to Minmatar. “Asimilate. Do it our way, or else…”
AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN - I never threatened you with anything. I was advocating free speech and right for own opinion. You don’t want yours? Fine, I am NOT forcing them on you.
Again, what? I never told you anything threatening, you are just picking my words to prove your point.
And also., You are the one threatening Me with violence, just because I have my opinion and didn’t blindly accepted yours. It may work in your State, but not with me…!
Yeah, you are the bully, I understand it.
Picking on somebody who cannot defend self is obviously your favorite pasttime… after all that racial bashing and violence.
Is it relaxing?
Do you feel better now?
Do you feel superior?
Should I bring out my shuttle for you to blow up, so you would feel even better and could brag about how you blown-up another inferior Gallente?!
No-one ever listens to me…
Yeah, I know… but I am quite stubborn.
I admit I didn’t check who you were, so I apologize for that!
It certainly wasn’t. Neither implied, nor stated explicitly. You’re making it up now.
Speaking about starvation…
With meritocracy our corporations actually bring food and work into captured colonies, unlike gallenteans who ‘feed’ captured colonies with ideals of freedoms and democracies. How would taste a sandwich where you use freedom instead of bread and smear democracy over it instead of butter. Tasty?
Moreover, we respect human decency and don’t starve prisoners of war unlike gallenteans. Have you ever seen a Caldari extracted from gallente POW camp?..
I was speaking about your people, not you personally since you’ve admitted being gallentean. What I was judging you personally is only threats of freedom and violence on me, though I did invite you to try…
" I will fight nail and teeth, to protect freedom. My freedom. Freedom of my children. Freedom of my people. And last but not least, even your freedom"
Are these your words?
You said you’d fight for my freedom, I said come and try.
I do not deny I am a violent person who was trained and prepared specifically to solve tasks that need violent solutions. I have been a soldier of the State since I was 11 or 12, I don’t even remember exactly. But I am deeply grateful to our State for the given training and education. Being a soldier since such young age I was allowed to kill people even before I was allowed to consume alcohol, and this I won’t deny either.
But I never waste my skills of violence for such insignificant things as opinions. I use violence to protect lives and property, to protect Honor, Good names and Reputation, to support friends in need, to enforce justice or enact revenge, or to solve a task bestowed on me by the Superiors. The claim I’ll embezzle my training and skills for such worthless and unprofitable thing as mere opinion is insulting!
Rather petty and irrational ad hominem. Running our of arguments?
I do not have evidences of your crimes other than your intent of fighting for my freedom. Since I can’t consider you as a suspect, I cannot open fire without warning and thus I’ll prefer to drag you into CBT for them to find the degree of your guilt (again, I find that possible since fighting for freedom can be considered as an illegal terrorist operation).
Though I do wonder, how exactly do you plan to fight for my freedom with a… shuttle? Are you going to bump me out of the station to free me from my dock?