Eve online is way too unforgiving for new players

Might be. Might not be. I don’t pretend to know what the devs were thinking. I just operate as if every system, is the one someone is going to kill me in, and I tell that to new players every chance I get. Sorry if I seemed short with you. I have leukemia and some days the fatigue makes engaging in a cogent discussion difficult. I lose words, and don’t always make the points I want to make clearly w/o sounding like a half drunk imbecile.

Peace bro. These forums get aggressive but at least I didn’t feel like you were here just to make it aggressive, unlike some folks.

Hang in there! :+1:

Because crime is rampant. Like in prison, The Highsecurity is the most dangerous.

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Aside from the people that do.

Security refers to systems in place, not how often incidents occur. High security prisons for example. Football stadiums.

It’s not an intentional trick from CCP either. They frequently reference how high sec is not safe. The tutorials talk about it. The latest gameplay video calls it ‘relative’ safety.

If players don’t know that highsec is not completely safe it’s because they are ignoring all the information.


This game doesn’t even have a proper game guide that isn’t third party. Its chock full of confusing items, terms and events and smartbombs, auto-targeting missiles and high security are just three easy examples. There are loads and there is no shortage of people who have posted their confusion over getting ganked in high security.

As you so often do, you seem to be arguing for the fun of arguing.

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Wrong definition.

Security as in ‘what security do you have?’

procedures followed or measures taken to ensure the security of a state or organization.

This what is meant by ‘high security’. Like a high security prison, or an event with ‘high security’.

Is there any practical reference to ‘high security’ where they are not talking about the systems in place? A high security park perhaps with no security systems, just an uneventful spot? A high security home with no security systems it just hasn’t ever been robbed? A high security mall with no cameras?

Can you honestly think of such an example?


This is fairly common practice now. Especially for games that have a lot of information.

CCP could be more transparent about the general nature of the game for sure. But the precise naming of hi-sec isn’t the issue.

And the name hisec certainly isn’t a reference to how safe the space is. It’s a reference to the mechanics in place.

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I think this game should have space for those of us who just want to chill and pve without having to worry about someone who has 1000x the resources and 100x time the experience going for a suicide ganks for gags. Call it super sec all I care, but there should be systems that allows just doing pve with friends or solo. Obviously it shouldn’t be as lucrative as systems where pvp is possible.

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Abyss space, noob systems, or the test server. This is as close as you’ll get.

But really, no business has to cater for all types of customers. In fact it may actually hurt their business to do so.

Should call of duty cater to dinosaur lovers? Should wow cater to non-consensual pvp lovers? Should Gordon Ramsay cater to McDonald’s burger lovers?

There are games out there that do what you want. So the real question is, and this is a sincere question i want you to reply to, why are you here?


Well, there you go, expecting new players to choose the “right” definition which is down the list from the first and most standard one.

BTW, I did not link the “wrong” definition. I linked ALL the definitions.

That’s nice. Is this relayed adequately to new players? What is this thread about again?

No I can’t. Those places are just called “safe”.

If I in return ask for an example of a place with high security that is an abysmal failure in the safety department, you could easily say “prisons”. But why would anybody think high security space is equivalent to a prison?? Obviously they would think of their own experience first, of places they are free to move about, such as an embassy or consulate or some other government building or airport, where people’s belongings are checked and items deemed dangerous are removed. But EVE gate authorities don’t take away dangerous items! As I wrote earlier, this is a central tenet to ANY high security area! But they don’t do it! EVE is totally using the term “high security” utterly wrong!


Except it is. I could switch the labels of a trash compactor and a cell phone storage locker and have a sign right next to it explaining the situation but there are going to be a lot of destroyed phones proving lots of people are going to be totally confused. Its not a mystery that improper naming causes problems. Its dead obvious.

So you say, but for most people, by usual experiences with high security and their day to day use of the word “security” it DOES mean safe to them. You can’t just wave your hand with a bit of explanation and expect that to all just disappear. We have had tons of people utterly confused about how they could get killed in high security space while minding their own business. The proof is in the pudding. Its obvious.

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Instead of having some inane argument about the definition of security, let’s just rename security bands to the following:
1.0-0.5: Dangerous space.
0.4-0.1: Dangerouser space.
0.0: Dangerousest space.
Wormhole space: Even more dangerousest space.

There. Problem solved.


They don’t have to pick any specific definition. They learn that 1.0 to 0.5 is something called ‘hi-sec’ and then wonder what that means.

People might have a vague idea of what it implies but no one knows the details of game mechanics that are involved until they look it up, ask or via experimentation.

And if they don’t ask about it and instead just make assumptions, that’s their fault!

If you have a suggestion on how to better inform them, have at it.

If by ‘adequately’ you mean the vast majority of new players understand that hi-sec is not 100% safe, yes.

Eve is a war-torn and moraly corrupt dystopia. Slavery. Public executions. Cover ups. Untouchable corporations. People are even murdered and turned into soft-drinks…

In the real world it’s not even just prisons. Some countries, one in particular, have massive security budgets but are relatively unsafe.

Boo hoo! Eve is not real life!

And if they don’t ask about it and instead just make assumptions, that’s their fault!

Rubbish. No new player is going to read all resources before starting. That expectation is ridiculous. Gaps in knowledge are expected and normal. Its NOT their fault for not knowing, much less truly understanding that detail. You are setting the bar WAAAY too high for new players.

Have already done so long ago. Rename hi sec to, for example, security patrolled space, low sec to unpatrolled space and null sec to outland space, or adjust high security space to match its name…all capsuleer safeties lock to green, NPCs actively hunt pirates, etc.

Does anyone call those countries high security??

Look man, they could call high sec “Gzortcomplup” to further remove it from real life. But would that be helpful? No.

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They don’t have to read all resources. They obviously know that it’s called ‘hisec’. And once they do, they only need to ask what ‘hisec’ means.

Gaps are expected yes. Especially amongst those that make no attempts to learn. So why are you complaining so much?

Only a small proportion of new players are ganked. And only a small proportion of them didn’t know about hisec rules . And the only reason they didn’t know is because they didn’t ask themselves: what does hisec mean?

There it is. The real reason your here.

Using new players as an excuse to push your agenda.

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Is that what this is about?

Safety settings exist to protect the player, not the other players. And safety settings are pointless outside high sec space. So this is a silly suggestion.

High security space is called like that because it has high security, not because it is safe. So stop trying to make it safe.


That’s a rather odd statement since my first, more detailed and usual suggestiion is and was FIX THE NAME.

But, you know, if you want to be presumptuous and paranoid, be my guest.

You too? Man, you guys jump at shadows a lot.

Amazing how flexible you can be in accusing me, and then how inflexible you can be with the way things work. There is no special reason not to have it working BOTH ways.

It freaking doesn’t, and I have explained this.

I have gone into great detail about how I think everything should run. It involves adding a fourth security level and expanding the empires a little bit. I won’t go into it again here…its a waste of time explaining detailed ideas here that not only get ignored by the devs but maliciously misinterpreted by forum denizens like you two. But I want to pave the way into low sec to encourage people to go out where its less safe, so get off my back with your loopy unfounded guesses about what I think and want.

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If it worked both ways, there would be no point in the safety systems at all. In high sec it would be forced green, and outside high sec nobody cares about the safety systems already.

Forcing the safety systems to green is therefore ridiculous, as it invalidates the reasons for the safety system to exist: it would be much better to completely get rid of the safety system while turning off PvP in high sec. (Which is not a good idea by the way.)

basic mining, latin for not using venture or cargo mods, or using a venture with 1 mining laser 1. Also see not omega, and therefore cant do any mining besides the 1 minute wait. And gas mining is… awkward, namely in that in order to do it, you need enough money to spend 9-10m(last time i checked), and i also quick skimmed the buyers list, no one is buying the top set, just some/most of the numbered lower sets, and if nobody wants it then its a waste of time compared to dual eg-5/S mining random rocks for 500-600k a trip(venture only, didnt time my trips so i dont know isk/m3 per hour).

Anyone who mines in a non-venture ship as an alpha is an idiot. Anyone who only fits one mining laser is also an idiot. We shouldn’t balance around idiots.

Gas mining is fine too. Mykoserocin is actually worth something now.

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It’s really hard for alpha to mine so they use catalyst as an alternative. It pays well.

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