My apologies, on re-reading you are right that they are not moon ores. Of course, CCP are unable to communicate clearly, so keep talking about “new asteroid fields”. So, belts? Or anomalies? If anomalies, in high sec?
As ever, 2/10 for their comms…
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Yeah, I was just rereading it and it sounds like they’ll be anomalies.
Hopefully it won’t be long before they release some real information.
I am reading it as anomalies.
As long as they are non-highsec, I like the idea. I would like it even more if they would make small deposits as directly warpable anomalies and bigger deposits as scannable signatures.
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Yeah, I’m torn. Highsec mining is in a pretty bad state as it is so it’d be good to see CCP boost it, but at the same time I like that there’s a need to go out of highsec for higher tier minerals.
Good afternoon, Everyone,
Good to see the continued improvements, is there any chance CCP could please introduce BPC for the Tech II Triglavian ship components, I am sure there are many players hoping for new Triglavian content.
Thanks again CCP for this amazing game, I hope you can find a way to introduce these BPC’s, possibly made available in the Triglavian LP store?
Kind regards,
Mark
There is a clear difference between Ore- and Ice-Mining.
Ore Mining in High is - in my opinion - as it should be. Its more than enough ore there for noobs in Ventures and if one is willing to leave the area of the trade hubs even for some barge-mining in groups. Its of course not enough to get spacerich, but it shouldn’t, as I see HighSec only as traning-ground, so people can get used to the mechanics, make some friends, make some big plans and then go into low and 0.0 and WH space to have the real adventures.
Ice Mining however is vastly over the top in HS. The roids are way too big, there is way toooo much ice harvested basically afk because you can have your lasers activated for an hour straight on one roid, even in an Exhumer. So there are lots of massive multiboxers going in with 15, or 20 Exhumers, Orcaboost and getting billions over billions in ISK out of these Ice Belts, leaving only crumbs for the newcomers that mine solo or in small newbro-groups.
These HS icebelts should be splitted as well, into small anomalies that are just big enough for a small group of players and like 15 minutes harvesting, so they are unattractive for larger fleets because there would be more time spent warping than harveting if you go in there with 15 boosted exhumers. In addition larger deposits with even better ice-variants that must be scanned down first, to reward the actively looking players/corps that are willing to move and do not reward the mass multiboxers and bots just sitting at the same system all day long and instantly farming the icebelt with their fleet once it respawns.
But in the end, the huge belts should be reserved for low, 0.0 and shattered WHs only and thats where the majority of all harvested Ice should come from. Not like now, from HighSec.
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Hmm, im not sure you got the joke from that other thread. Why are you dragging in a comment from another thread anyway?
I disagree on the idea that highsec is a training ground. It’s a valid an area as anywhere else and should be balanced as such. Ore mining is very low income compared to other things, such as mission blitzing, so to me ore mining is not in a good place. Industry and trade is also a massive earner in highsec. I don’t get why people have such a massive problem with mining but seemingly no problem with anything else.
I agree that ice is a problem and I think most of that is due to it being tied to the old belt system. To me ice should be in random anoms, randomly spawned and varied in size. A highsec ice anom is only about a billion in total though last I checked
The only way you would leave your laser on one roid for a full hour is if your efficiency is very low. A minimum skilled mining character with no exhumer skills and no mining upgrade on the ship would take just under an hour to fill a max skilled mackinaw bay for example (which would be worth about 9m btw).
You say “don’t reward the mass multiboxers and bots” but these also exist in null. The solution for botting is not to disproportionately nerf rewards for one type of activity in one area of space.
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schizophrenics have such a tendency to reply to a specific thread in another thread … you as a doctor should understand this perfectly well…
It shouldn’t even be an anom. It should be signatures that you have to scan. We could finally get the comet mining we deserve. These comets also provide new materials that substitute the gas from K-space to decouple this resource from ship building in order to fix booster production again.
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Thats fine, I don’t want to convince you here.
There are two balances that need to be found: one balance within highsec (the different activities against each other) and the balance within the different areas (High vs Low vs 0.0 vs. WH…). Within HighSec I would agree, but in the other direction: Mining pays okay for the security you have there, you can basically do it completely risk-free if you are not completely afk and avoid some major hotspots. The other acitivities (L4 blitzing, Abyssals etc.) pay too much ISK. Industry is kinda hard to judge, because there are soooo many different ways to generate profits and it often depends on the market situation which can change quite rapidly. But, I personally would love a lot higher taxes/fees in High (Lore: to fund CONCORD ^^) on all activities, to give Low/0.0 more advantages in all areas.
Nah, of course you had to clear up your OreBay in between. What I say is: the roids are too big. You can suck forever on an HighSec roid, even with a max-skiled Exhumer. That needs to change, because it only rewards semi-afk playstile and massive multiboxing.
Of course they also exist in Null, but thats a topic that can be adressed by other tweaks because you have other game mechanics there. But I agree thats an issue that should be adressed as well, just with other tools, tools that generate PvP-options. The point in HS is that you can do it semi-afk in nearly perfect safety if you don’t do real major mistakes, thats why I would reward active gameplay of smaller groups by breaking up the huge static icebelts into smaller anos/sigs, but make large static mining-fleets that basically never move much pretty ineffiecient.
I agree there’s balances within highsec and highsec vs other areas, I just disagree that mining is overall unbalanced in either regard. It would be better if ice was reduce and ore were increased to balance within highsec but neither ice nor ore hold a candle to other areas of space in terms of income.
You definitely can’t “suck forever on an HighSec roid”. Go check the roids, they just aren’t that big. Ice are by far the biggest, but even if you had an ice roid all to yourself it’ll only last a couple of hours at most. The chances of you having to yourself are very low though as ice is so competitive.
I don’t really care about semi-afk or multiboxing. When AFK ratting in nullsec is shut down then we can look at semi-afk everywhere else. Nullsec AFK ratting is crazy overpowered so until that is deemed a problem I can’t justify nerfing any other playstyle on that basis.
Bots should be addressed by tackling bots, not by affecting the income of regular players. I definitely agree with rewarding active gameplay but that has to be done across the game or not at all. As it stands nullsec is crushing every other area of space in risk/reward balance and most activities are just as easy to AFK wit the right intel tools. Those null groups then farm highsec and lowsec through tax on things like customs offices and stations. All easy, passive income.
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I specifically meant Ice roids. Ore Roids are quite nice for HS in my opinion. You can mine a few cycles, then the roid is gone and you have to go to the next.
Yeah thats a few hours too long. Ice roids should have maybe double the amount of harvestable resources inside that the big veldspar roids have (like 10 cycles of a max-skilled exhumer). And thats it, next roid then please. So instead of a few hours, you suck 20 minutes with a single exhumer and an iceroid is gone. A small Miningfleet of like 5-6 Exhumers should definitely clear a warpable icebelt within 30 minutes. Then it despawns and randomly respawns somewhere else, so you have to move location. Better ones need to be scanned, they can last longer but are also more rare.
Thats whataboutism. We cannot work on problem A because unrelated problem B is worse? please…
I deem it a problem. And many others do as well. And we don’t talk about “nerfs”, but “changes”. If you make it harder to massively multibox-mine these highsec belts, Ice prices would rise and especially the more active smaller miningroups would get more Ice at all and could sell it for more ISK. It would only hurt people with 20 accounts that are used to log in each day and get their billion out of their multibox fleet, leaving little left for regular casualplayers. I can absolutely justify that change, AFK ratting or not.
Small steps into a right direction create a way. Waiting for a perfect solution does not change anything for the better.
Thats another problem and I absolutely agree that this is a huge one that should be adressed as well. But again, its unrelated to mining mechanics.
If ice roids were that small and anoms were curt in size though it wouldn’t help smaller miners. It would just mean multiboxers sucks them dry quicker. Honestly it sound like you just want highsec to not be viable for any long term players, in which case why have highsec at all? If you think you should be punished for staying in highsec then just shrink highsec down to a dozen systems, remove the ability to do any industry or trade at scale there and force people to other areas of space to do anything.
Right now there’s a situation where you can make hundreds of millions an hour outside of highsec, you can make billions doing things like trading and industry in highsec, you can make a fair amount running missions and abyssals, but you’re pointing at the highest end highsec miners making 20m an hour and saying “they need to be nerfed!”.
Clearly not enough others. When CCP put in the changes to reduce that by making ratting less rewarding the more it was done in one area a massive portion of the playerbase left.
I don’t think this is true. I think price is mainly affected by the cap in the total amount that can be extracted rather than whether it’s multiboxers or actual fleets of people doing the mining. I’m not even sure how they’d affect multibox mining efficiency without making it a chore for fleets at the same time, though I’d welcome suggestions on that.
For this particular change it remains to be been whether these anoms will be in highsec or not, but even if they are I doubt they will be as profitable as ice. IF they are close though, they will split the mining so less people will be mining ice though, right? Isn’t it a good thing if ore mining is more competitive with ice mining?
reducing the moon ore was overdue. we were spending far too much time mining more ore for less value .
however, adding even more mineral types in an uneven distribution just further slaps industrialists with more to deal with. sorry, this is not a welcome development.
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Sure it would, because if the total value of what is currently in an Icebelt is split up into 10 smaller anos and 5 scannable Sigs throughout the constellation, you would always have a chance to find one and harvest it out before the 20-mack-fleet appears. And not face 3.5 hours of not having any Ice available because some multiboxer cleaned the one belt up with his fleet, grabbing al the profits for himself.
People need a training ground for the basic mechanics, so they can test out and try whatever profession or activity they prefer in a rather safe environment. Make some friends in the game, work a bit together, get some idea how this game works at all. And a fallback-area when they have lost their assets out there in the hostile areas and need to stage somewhere to regroup and build/farm some new starting assets for the next adventure. If someone choses to stay there forever, shall he, but it should always be on the lower end of profits.
Indeed I personally would like some changes in that general direction, but thats an entirely own topic.
I don’t want mining to be nerfed in general. I want mass-multibox-mining to be nerfed and as a side-effect I hope that if less resources are mined that way, supply will shrink and prices will go up. Which will benefit all those casuals currently only getting 20mil/hour. Besides that I am comepletely open to boost the income for miners, but only in ways that make sure it cannot be scaled indefinitely by mass-multiboxing. Also I only point at them because this is a topic about mining. In a topic about missionrunning I would critizise the profits from L4 blitzing and burner missions.
CCP did a very bad job at this point. They hurt even the non-afk players and non-botters, especially in a way that they felt punished for just doing what they came for in their own home system. So they stopped ratting and some even left the game when they didnt want to find another way to make ISK. Had CCP specifically made only AFK-ratting impossible but left normal ratting unharmed, the effect on player numbers would have been a lot smaller.
Nah, I think thats a common misconception. It really isn’t like “if the massive multiboxer with his 20 exhumers isn’t getting the Ice, its 20 other people!”. A LOT of Ice is currently mined via massive multiboxing and that would for some parts not be mined by others, but stay unmined, which would create less supply for the ice-resources, which, following economic rules, should increase the price. Even if the mined amound would stay exactly the same, the profits from Ice would then be distributed among 20 people instead of one multiboxer, which still would be more healthy for the game economics than the current situation.
Why does this not surprise me not even in the slightest.
This thread needs to be closed immediately on the grounds that it is boring.
Walls of text are countered with other walls of text.
TLDR - people are mining or something equally boring, and they are unhappy
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This is misinformation, from
a.) inexperience
b.) stupidity
c.) trollish biased prejudicial bigotry.
stop with lies on things you might know nothing about, but if you honestly believe this…then you are really really stupid and out of touch with reality.
Oh come on, I have just done a survey scan of an HighSec Icebelt. Most of the Roids still had around 290.000m³ of Ice left in there, but that was an old belt where already like 6 exhumers were farming. So lets assume one HighSec IceRoid has 300.000m³ when it spawns. According to PyFa a MaxSkilled Mackinaw with 2 IceMiners, 3 IceHarvesterUpgrades and 1 IceHarvesting Drone + Orcaboost from a maxSkilled BoosterChar including ForeManImplant gets 53m³ per Second. (in reality it will be less because you might want fit a DamageControl at least against Gankers. But lets assume you go full yield fit) Which means it needs 5.660seconds to mine that one IceRoid. Which equals 94minutes or 1.5 HOURS. PER ROID. Thats basically forever. If you split your lasers on two roids you can ice mine 3 hours without moving position. And there are like more than a dozen of them per Belt. Thats hilarious.
But maybe I have a dramatical math error here (I would be glad if you can show it and I will instantly withdraw all my claims), these roids are way too big and just promote an semi-afk static gamestyle.