Most players who are considered to be high-sec PvPers in some capacity (e.g. wars, ganking) were actually very much in favor of blackout.
One of the main reasons why high-sec PvP is so prevalent to begin with is that null-sec is structured in a way that can much more easily prevent unwanted PvP than any other area of space, including high-sec. If we could disrupt the economic activities of the game’s wealthiest players at the source, we probably wouldn’t be in high-sec as much. But as is, the best way to compete for these players’ wealth (if you don’t want to make your own super-coalition backed by five figures’ worth of capital ships) is to hit their trade activities in high-sec.
This is a CCP/CSM issue, not a “high-sec griefers being hypocrites” issue.
The goal of one player to be untouched by competition is no more noble than the goal of another player to force competition upon others.
“Small industry corps” should have better tools to fight back, but they shouldn’t be immune to attack. After all, why shouldn’t their gameplay be affected, when their gameplay affects others?
To be fair this isn’t really viable anymore. In the old days, you could hire a small group for a few hundred million to run interference when someone declared war on you. Today, wars are structured entirely around citadel-bashing, and the requirement to counter 50-man battleship gangs has become the baseline as opposed to the highest form of escalation possible. In almost every instance, it’s considerably cheaper to just let the a structure die, than to pay 5 billion ISK to save some shitty Astrahus (a fee that is usually kept even if a fight doesn’t happen!), with the exceptions being wormholes and low-power structures that need emergency defense without which everyone’s crap will drop without asset safety.
This is one of the main reasons why the contemporary war declaration system is such dogshit. Small entities should have viable alternative means of coping with attack that don’t involve losing their structures every time, or paying essentially the structures’ worth in ransom money.
Maybe CCP needs to give citadels a grid-wide self-destruction AoE ability that scales damage with the total amount of ships that are on the field, so that it’s not viable to rape a tiny mining corporation’s Athanor with 50 Leshaks anymore.
The old system without those stations was better to get a pvp introduction. You could scout and mine, learn about locator agents, gloriously explode when trying to kill this enemy Brutix Navy… but you could do something. You could fight back and learn something about PVP or log off for a week like a rabbit. Now you can just look at the battleships that destroy your station you built in wrong-safety and that’s it.
Edit: And I bet it was more fun for people to actually be evil pirates and hunt ships and have some engagements instead of playing station games at the tradehubs or shooting a station for 30 minutes.
But for that to happen everybody must be deccable.
But those groups are able to escalate to that extent easily when needed. And it’s not just your group. Yours is the biggest one, but other groups can achieve at least partially similar numbers. Whether it’s 50 Leshaks or 20 Leshaks doesn’t make much of a difference to some group that might only have half a dozen combat-capable players.
How many Leshaks and Guardians does an 8-man high-sec mining corporations have?
Or how much would it cost them to deal with 30 Leshaks and 40 Guardians someone else brings to attack their structure?
There’s literally no way to resist that’s remotely financially-viable. Just hoping that the attackers feel benevolent enough to accept a reasonable ransom that day isn’t actually counterplay.
We really need more combat groups in high sec to counter the large groups , miners and industrialist need to band together to make an area stronger, then the ten 5 man corps can chip in and have a dedicated defence unit.
I know it always comes back to this dam structure wars ideas and a crap war sys but war decing groups work with this sys , industrialist and miners need to work with it to .
I bet it you asked black flag to set up a mining group they would come up with the numbers needed, an area to defend , placement of structures and defence fleet plan , non combatants need to learn and think ahead.
Stop playing in a one man corp in an mmo and thinking you will be safe , no one is ever safe in the end
I think that small corps that are in some sort of defense agreement should be able to fly and use a unified fleet doctrine. Then there would be a coalition-level FC team looking over the defense strategy. Making sure that structures are fitted properly, have suitable vulnerability hours, that kind of stuff as well as actually running the ops when needed.
The question is how do you bring in the know-how. Do you have any contacts to low/nullsec FCs willing to teach this kind of stuff?
You are making this too complicated. If someone wants to guarantee the safety of their structure in hisec, just contact your local mercenary group and arrange a protection contract. For example, let’s say you want to put down a raitaru near Jita to build stuff in peace, but you are worried about wardecs. Just contact Blackflag, and we would be happy to quote you a service contract that guarantees that if anyone comes after your raitaru, Kane’s proverbial 30 Leshaks and 40 Guardians will roll up to your station at the appointed time and put and end to that nonsense.
Like most things in RL, sometimes it is just easier to write a check to a specialist to deal with something than trying to do it all yourself.
I get it but Githany was making a point about self-protection so that’s what I tried to expand on.
Plus it’s prettymuch always better to stand on your own (either alone or with allies) than to rely on someone’s benevolence. Not to mention that if you consistently attack those who aren’t under your protection, isn’t that close to a rental contract?
The trouble with this idea Black flag are one of the few mercenary corps in high sec , now I don’t know how BF manage their protection rackets , sorry I mean protection contracts but if someone wants to higher Bf to take your station out and offer more isk then you can start to see a problem here .
The benefit of self protection out weights this in a number of ways. Any attacking force will have to face a defence fleet , even an inexperience group can be a Thorne in the attackers side . Plenty of experienced FC I’m sure would be willing to help setup a small group with fleet doctrines and tactics if asked.
Added to the above the content and experience you would get from this would be invaluable, even if you lost , which should have been built into your plans anyway as well as a way to carry on after a war.
You may not want to fight but this is eve and it comes to us all , plan for it and learn to enjoy it .
Maybe this thread just need to end and die off since it is full of people that
A - Don’t do wars themselves
B - Pretend to think they know what it is like
C - Should maybe stop talking about something they don’t know and definitely don’t understand.
Experienced FC is not going to help here. We are able to take on larger fleet sizes purely because of the fact we fly bling and each person in fleet has at minimum 1 logi alt. We fully SRP, and if we know there are big fights we drop 30-40 extra logi ships in system so that if we loose one they can reship quickly. As a matter of fact a corp of 13 people and a structure on grid with just me and 3 alts was to much.
If a corp escalates we just call a CTA on discord and suddenly we have 50-70 ship or as in our biggest fight against FRAT we had about 700 people in local. 450 was us and allies.
You might notice many structure die in caldari space and many other just seem to keep on living… ever wondered why? We do not shoot people that pay not even if somebody offers us more isk as that reputation is important to maintain.
Now you don’t know what your talking about , seen it many times, only the other day a null sec FC gave up his time to help .
I did say I don’t know what your policy is and how you run your protection racket.
Yes I’m sure you can muster 450 against FRAT , many people jump on that band wagon, even we have in the past for free. On the other hand I’ve seen you run from battle from a FRAT / jita holdings fleet.
But then again I wouldn’t judge any group on a single action or presume to know the facts about them .
Again presumptions but keep doing that
You do know our paths run close to each other and I’m sure will cross one day .
That’s good to know and many will be pleased but my point is solo player can pay you it’s there only real way of being safe but groups of player should work together to try and defend what they make. If then it’s to much for them they can ask you for help.
I’ve had in the past endless battles around pos often against superior forces , every one was fun and good content . Why miss out