Harden the ■■■■ up is a weird thing to say, at the end of the day it’s a game. Losing a ship or being cheated for 1b in jita is part of the charm. Being harassed over ones gender (sexuality, colour and faith) is not. And I’m pretty sure even CCP don’t condone this kind of thing
People that goes out of they way to do otherwise, especially if it bleeds into out of game things are part of the problem being currently being discussed
No, that’s not how human decency, compassion, and understanding works.
If you were to, say, gank my 310m ISK mission battleship and I started crying in local, then yes, HTFU applies.
This should help serve as a reminder (0:20 - 1:20):
One would think that with EVE’s playerbase that is older on average compared to other MMOs there would be more mature people yet here we are with some men who still hasn’t matured enough to be able to seperate game and RL. You can smack talk me on my killboard, my corp-history, my assets in the game, or whatever else you can find in the game (and I will gladly throw some smack back), but if you attack me or anyone else on their gender (or sexuality or race) you are a waste of everyone’s time and please proceed to ■■■■ off.
Way too many times have I seen fellow women (or other minorities) getting harassed in this game. To the people doing the harassment or denying that it is a problem: Grow the ■■■■ up.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
The community guidelines themselves are perfectly clear. You can’t attack someone on the basis of their race/gender etc etc within the game, or on the forums. This isn’t a discussion, it’s a basic fact, and you’re welcome to complain to CCP about it but I don’t see it going far.
1. Specifically restricted conduct.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to courteous when disagreeing with others.
In order to maintain an environment where everyone is welcome and discussion flows freely, certain types of conduct are prohibited on the EVE Online forums. These are:
Sexism and discrimination is clearly listed here, that should be the end of it.
When people use a private forum to coordinate harassment against other players, that’s not okay. That is what I called out.
I will not apologize for calling out the bad behavior of a player who was actively harassing me and who I have since had to ignore on these forums.
No one asked you to. Please read again.
As I did state in the initial post, my issue is not with the conflict between yourself and another player.
I stated that I was upset and hurt by the demeaning tone used to refer to the discord server to which I am a part of.
I am not here to orchestrate anything, and I’m very upset at the accusation I have done so.
Here we go with the condescension.
Again, I will not apologize because I called out a player who was harassing me on the forums for not only harassing me here, but coordinating those efforts elsewhere.
I have not asked for an apology from the folks who were doing that, nor will I. I said what I wanted to say in regards to that situation to the person involved, and there is no reason for this post or any of the others that seem to be trying to smear me as having made some kind of anti-women comments when I have done no such thing, and never have.
I’m willing to open a dialogue about this, and I wonder why you’ve addressed everyone else except me.
No one asked you to. This is the relevant bit I wanted you to consider again:
If he wanted to bring up talking about him behind his back, he could have said “talk nasty about me on closed discords”. There was no need to bring up the gender of the other player, nor was there a reason to use the belittling term ‘girls’. That is something he chose to do.
The problem here Brisc is that you’re trying to make this explicitly about the drama you had with someone else, when the OP and several of the female contributors of this thread have made great pains to not fight that fight and avoided bringing it up or muddying the waters, and instead focused on the harm the tone of your comments made to them as individual females.
You chose some words. Those words had a pretty negative tone, and a couple were directed towards the female-only server in some kind of offence as if somehow there aren’t also a whole bunch of places you yourself are a part of that others can’t be. That hurt people who otherwise probably wouldn’t have given the argument a second thought. That’s the issue right there, and the fact the comments were moderated lends weight that perhaps the tone and the choice of words, whether or not intentional, could (and clearly have) caused the kind of offence you claim you’ve not made.
Take a step back. Think a little perhaps about how this has all been interpreted outside of the rest of the argument, then reflect on your position here. Just my two pence, as a (albeit relatively briefly) former member of INIT.
That you think that the issue is related to gender and not about the coordinated harassment campaign in that discord speaks volumes. I’m sure you also supported the banning of one of my friends in that discord - someone who has nothing to do with my knowledge of what was being said.
Again, if you think that kind of harassment is okay, just say so.
I am quite sure you can ask your friend about me.
However, this detracts from my initial point and @Utari_Onzo is very correct in what he’s said.
It does not matter what else it is, and to be honest I do not care. I am not a party to this quarrel and I don’t give a ■■■■ about who said what or got banned from where.
You are the one who on a public forum made it about gender, giving a terrible impression about our community to every woman gamer seeing that post. That part is what I care about. I expect better from CSM.
Correct - you do not care what actually happened, who is the actual aggrieved party or who else may have been punished unjustly, you just want an excuse to tell me you don’t like me.
Thanks, message received.
@Brisc_Rubal As an outsider, I have no quarrel in this matter. I do however have a straightforward question: will you help, hinder, or do nothing about OP’s request?
I don’t believe an apology is necessary. My comment was made to the person I made it to, no one else, and it had nothing to do with their gender. It was simply a way of identifying where the harassment coordination was taking place.
Women are 100% respected by this community and by the CSM and there is no reason to question otherwise.
Again, this issue was between me and the other person, and it was based on their continuing harassment of me. No one else needed to be involved, and those who don’t know the whole story are doing a disservice to me and the community by trying to turn this into something it was not.
My issue is with being referred to as a ‘girl’. If I may…
However, when I saw comments referring to the discord server the female player base of Eve have as a safe haven, I felt annoyed. I felt angry. And most of all, I felt belittled. ‘Girl’ in the way it was used came off in a very derogatory fashion, and I was not alone in these feelings, although few feel they can speak up.
Referring to a grown woman or women as ‘girl/girls’ is immensely patronizing. It implies we are less because of our gender. It is trivializing. There have been several prominent opinion pieces on the subject.
I do not come here to bring up old conflicts between this CSM and others. I come here as someone who is looking at this from an outside perspective and taking a stand.
I have no stake in your issue with other players or harassment. That is your battle to fight. That is not what my post is about. I asked for an apology to your word use. I did not once ask you to apologize for your own personal conflict with another player.
I hope this has clarified a bit more my perspective on the issue.
Thanks for the candid reply, Brisc. I don’t wish to get involved, just provide a final feedback about your reply:
You have been abundantly clear about your beliefs. I am merely asking what actions you would do based on your beliefs, should another CSM member believe differently. I’m not confident I have a clear answer and I don’t wish to press further, so I will bow out.