Why buy when you can get them for free for your 3D printer?
Again, given this debacle and CCP stupidity we had to deal with, I would tend to agree with you.
@Nevyn_Auscent nothing prevents them from having an NDA and that is all fine and good. However when you put on a public report that you are talking about an NDA document, in this case the DAC (Daily Active Customers) graph and then you dont show it, I call that BS and taking the public for idiots. For the simple reason that by simply mentioning an NDA document, you already broke the NDA. So in this case, whoever wrote and published those minutes already violated the NDA in question. So the DAC (Daily Active Customers) graph is no longer part of the NDA at all.
@Steve_Ronuken, @Dunk_Dinkle, @Vily Could you guys get that DAC published or at the very least provide a summary of the info? Not like I would personally trust anything coming from CCP that I am not seeing from my own eyes, but at least it would be a beginning of something. And if CCP is creating you problems, I would tell those numbnuts that with the BO debacle, they have lost the trust of many players and to even remotely hope to regain it, they will have to start to come clean and provide accurate info.
Uh no.
Mention of a document doesnāt make the entire document not under the NDA, thatās not how the law works.
I can mention that I saw someones private file without breaking privacy laws, because the fact the file exists isnāt private.
Now in some cases, simply mentioning a thing exists is covered by NDA, but in the case of the DAU, itās pretty obvious that it exists, so mentioning it is hardly news to anyone, and therefore in this case CCP has chosen that itās existence is not part of the NDA. However itās contents are still confidential business information until such a time as CCP chose to release it, therefore are covered by the NDA.
Learn about laws before you talk false information.
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Good point, and I am not a lawyer. but one could also very well argue that their definition of NDA and confidentiality regarding the DAC is too broad, or that its scope in regards to the DAC is too broad, unreasonable or onerous.
Not really. Let me know when you find a MMO-game that releases those statistics and you may have a point. Itās pretty much SOP that figures like that arenāt released.
Yea, but we are not talking about any MMO here. And I dont recall any MMO which had a debacle as bad as what we have had the past 2+ month
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Uhhhh, most MMOās?
They spike every expansion then crash shortly afterwards because they are based on cyclical gear grinds.
Like, seriously, EVE is not out of the ordinary hereā¦ if anything it is above the standard retention trend because it doesnāt have the boom & bust cycle in itās normal player base to anywhere near the same extent.
Shaking the sandbox every now and then is a good thing. Sure the blackout may not have worked like CCP hoped, but I still commend them for doing it. We need more change in Eve.
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More changes that make sense. The BO did not.
I have no issues with changes, but changes that make sense.
Oh and by the way, for the record, what really pissed me off and is getting me on my horses about this crap is simply that BO only affected small entities and other such players. As I have posted on the BO threads, with this crap, CCP basically undid in 1 swift move everything that was done since Fozzy sov. And whether we will all recover from this is to be seenā¦
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too much chaosā¦ too much forcing the players to a specific style of behavior in the game then when the game was announced a multifaceted and comprehensiveā¦ it turns out that for those who want to develop less aggressively created all the difficultiesā¦there is no uniqueness in the new stationsā¦ there is no way to combine them into prisms ā¦ there is no possibility to experiment with projects a very strong imbalance of mining ships. and no reserves for fitting. with all your democracy you have lost charisma
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Can I haz your stuff?
I think they just want ganking and pvp, where do they think the ships mods and ammo come from??
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So you know youāre getting all the little fiddly bits right.
Uhmā¦ not even close? The CSM are under NDA. CCP is not. CCP released the minutes, and can say anything they want. The CSM can talk about anything CCPās actually said in the minutesā¦ and not one word past that.
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CCP has not released the graph, so the CSM cannot share it.
The CSM is bound to not release or discuss confidential information. That is to allow CCP to share with the CSM in their advisory role without everything being publicly revealed.
If you donāt think the CSM is representing you, what are we missing or not doing?
For some clarity about what happens at a CSM summit, I wrote this up: http://dunkdinkle.com/csm-summit-september-2019/
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@Dunk_Dinkle asks about the incursion rates going from 3 to 1 spawning at a time and if they would consider moving them back to their original spawn rates? They are considering if they should move it back to the original rate, their reasoning for doing this initially was to hope that the incursion runners would try out the invasion. Vily asks if theyāve looked into why no one moved over and CCP Sledgehammer said that this was a sentimental matter and due to the ISK payout.
Hi, incursion FC here. Allow me to have an alternate view on this: The main reason weāre not changing over is simple: incursions let us have fun in 20-40 man fleets. Invasions are 6-10 man fleets. Thatās it. Give us bigger invasions and weāll come. Donāt worryā¦
Having some way to fight ninja looters and salvagers would be nice, too. Itās not really fun having the results of all your work stolen by a 1 day old frigate that you canāt shoot until heās nabbed your loot and insta-warps. Or a high-skill Imicus whoās salvaging your loot (which is over half the value) and not even going suspect!
As for ISK, Iām sure a lot of use would still stick around if you dropped pay-outs a little bit.
Edit: removed extra line breaks
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That statement is bull. There are alot of people that PvP and mine. We dont need people who only mine and manufacture because many of us do that as well. The people who only mine on the other hand need PvPers to keep the demand high by blowing up the supply flying in space.
huh? It effected most of the large groups in NSāeven Delve numbers and ADMs took at hit. If anything many of the small groups thrived and used it as excellent period to do some profitable ore stealing and good pvp. Folks shouldnāt assume their particular corps inability to adapt or not adapt applied to every corps.
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Only partially true. Because thereās no maintenance fee, thereās no penalty for stockpiling huge fleets that never undockāthatās how some NS groups end up with 10,000 supers etc. Secondly, player attrition is a huge sink. Even with little to no PVP, demand would remain- with the exception of the excellent BO period it actually has.
I appreciate your response. I will respond with points.
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As far as I am concerned, one cannot mention a graph in a public report, without providing that graph or some type of numbers. Right now, it looks as if both CCP and CSM are saying āwe are talking about the DAC, but you are going to have to trust us about its data and that we are doing the right thing with itāā¦Not sure if CSM or CCP are blind or not, but these past 2+ month of BO has diminished whatever trust was had or was leftā¦
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Following such a debacle, the best way forward is more openness and less BS. As far as I am concerned that means data, numbers and in this case, in this particular situation, the DAC or at the bare minimum a summary of it.
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Honestly, until this whole crap, I had no issues with CSM or CCP, or even reasons to posts on forum discussions. And really, I would love to go back to just playing and not having to deal with forum wars vs devs, but at this pointā¦
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As I mentioned in a previous posts, in my opinion, the whole CSM voting thing is based on who is known the best in game and who is liked the best, and not on actual results on behalf of the players or on actually defending the players base vs CCP idiocy. given this debacle, one is in right to question the usefulness of CSM and whether CSMs are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing.
A small edit.
Given the past 2+ month, I strongly hope there is some āfists pounding on the tableā
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Because CCP still sees value in the input provided by CSM, they continue to fly them out to Iceland. Every year a few players start āCSM has gotta goā complaints, but CCP has yet to be convinced that the CSM is somehow responsible for the state of the game.
Its our right to ask questions of candidates during the election period in campaign threads, and if we donāt like the response - donāt vote for them. Tell your friends who seems āleast badā to vote FOR. Donāt ānot vote.ā That just increases the power of get-out-the-vote campaigns in large groups.
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