This is not a “CSM gotta go”, but again, given what we had to deal with these past few month, this might be the right time to figure a way for CSM to be actually accountable to the players…And for future elections to be based on results…
The only tool players have is voting, or not voting to re-elect a CSM that is “not satisfactory.” Use the Assembly Hall to raise concerns to the group as a whole.
You aren’t getting it. The CSM has no power over the game. Their entire position is advisory on how they think things will shake out from given details shared with them under NDA restrictions. CCP is then completely free to either take into consideration or completely ignore what they are told by the CSM.
All they are is effectively an in-person sound board to bounce things off of. And CCP has a track record of not listening sometimes when they really should have given that almost always developers do not have as much time into the game with which to have a feel for the extended effects of any given change. So quit harping about making the CSM accountable. What you really need to do is make a point that you want CCP more accountable.
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I have a question that one of our esteemed CSM might be able to answer. I have read several good ideas in the forums that seem to be a possible fix for at least some of the games problems. Yet we hear nothing from CCP in return. You would think they would at least say “That’s not a bad idea, we’ll look into that!” or “We tried that, but it plugged the toilet.” Seems to me that CCP was more open and commutated more info to the player base in the past.
So my question is, why does CCP not respond more in their own forums?
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The player ideas forum is a containment zone and nobody ever reads it. If you want someone from CCP to read your idea then post it on Reddit or Twitter it to one of the devs who actually work on the game. A sad state of affairs but true.
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Ok, then the next question is for the ISD, do the ISD (who are stuck reading all this crap anyway) ever forward anything they think should be kicked up the chain?
Edit; Kind of like a filter? And if they don’t, why not?
You do understand how the CSM works?
They don’t really get a say in what CCP does or doesn’t add to the game when it comes to CCP wanting to do as they choose. In these cases the CSM “may” get to discuss it with Devs but Devs are under no obligation to DO anything the CSM suggests.
In fact, had CCP listened to and taken notice of the CSM years ago, the game would likely not be in the state it is now. Many of the CSM spoke out against Structures, Rorquals, Sov, etc BEFORE they were introduced to TQ.
CCP’s reply for the most part was - Thanks for the input but we think it is for the best long term to do it this way…
Fuk were they WRONG.,
As for outing CSM by making their real life details available - Just look at how seriously people take the game - Do you not think they would go as far as “hunting down” a CSM member if they didn’t like them?
Would you like your real life details made available to all those salty tear soaked PVE’rs you kill? I wonder if one of them woke up in a foul mood after you’ve killed him, would he look you up and go after you in real life? Is that how Eve should be played?
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Not true. Various developers read these forums but don’t engage with players very often. Sometimes, when they do engage in some back and forth about feature changes, certain players hammer and insult to the point where they stop responding again.
One of CCP Falcon’s jobs is to report up the chain about trending topics and player sentiment. What happens or doesn’t happen because of those reports, is not his blame to take.
The point relating to CCP being more accountable has already been made. But the fact is since CSM has access that we dont, CSM needs to hold CCP accountable. And even in an advisory role CSM can be more forceful on behalf of the players.
@Sgt_Ocker good points as well.
@Circumstantial_Evidence honestly, do you really think @CCP_Falcon even bothers reading. Based on the interview at TiS, I would say he has no idea what is going on
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Maybe we should do a poll what feature should be prioritized for eve app? I don’t like csm suggestions at all. I think ghost fitting is more important.
Another sad minutes. Why nobody from csm touched sp trading and the cancer it caused with thousands of supers? This game is folding, fast.
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Skill farming is something which we’ve been talking about on a regular basis. While we didn’t really talk about it at the summit, that’s mostly so we didn’t waste face to face time, going over things we’d already talked at CCP at length about.
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Just face it, you cant give the CSM more power over CCP, you cant force CCP to give you anything, and you cant always get what you want. The other reason why CCP doesnt post on the forums is because people like you feel entitled to certain things and then ping spam them.
CCP is a company, not a government they dont have to do anything for you.
Edit: typos
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Except, you know, that they were talking about the DAC to one another. You’re just getting told ‘we talked about the DAC’, which is a different thing than actually talking about the DAC with us.
You want the unredacted version? Run for CSM.
but if you try sometimes
you just might find…
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I don’t really care what numbers are or not revealed.
I know somethings are handled under the table in all summits and meetings and honestly, I see no point in discussing such.
I wanted to see if there were hints about the near future in this thread and sadly, there are very few.
I know many things are seen as positive potential patches for existing features or perhaps corrections in the ongoing features that need adjustment and it is great. I think it’s part of the CSM job to bring to the table when something doesn’t seem to be going the right way.
But I did not see or have found on the forums what is coming as counter for the black summer.
I would like to leave the discussion of if it was good, bad or ugly. It was horrendous.
There is no sound proposal for winter. Nothing that will bring people back or at least stop the decline, at least for the winter period.
So, instead of looking at this summit as herald of improvement, I see it as perhaps the most pessimistic forecast, especially when you see no chart, path or any clue of what’s the north here.
The problem is not CSM’s job or obligations, if they do or not comply with whatever is on the list.
The thing is, if CSM is not the way for players to know what’s going on or what is coming AS ACCOUNTABILITY for the summer mess, then…
Where do we look?
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Sometimes we just get the slightly less redacted version. Which might just have the Y axis being unlabeled
Fair.
If he wants all the info all he has to do is buy CCP. He’ll get all the info he wants then.
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I just wanted proof that CCP and the CSM both recognized and agreed on certain basic facts and conditions, so that any planned or suggested changes could be evaluated on solving or correcting the current reality. What I think I read is that what the CSM considers to be facts and what CCP considers as real are two very separate group of things. A large amount of current player unrest stems from the majority of the players looking at what public official information they have , combined with personal and even secondary experiences, and reaching conclusions that render many of the CCP gameplay development actions illogical or misdirected.
This basic difference between all the major groups is heightened by CCP’s history of keeping development goals and plans close to the vest; a long standing problem that has been exacerbated in the last couple of years by decimation of the community relations team. Combined with CCP Devs increasing habit of insulating itself by resorting to communication channels and groups outside of official channels for inspiration and feedback, CCP may have created a “reality” that differs from the majority of us.
No wonder so many of us are left scratching our heads and wondering “what are they thinking?”.
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The wormhole “csm rep” ExookiZ seems to be preoccupied with the high class wormholes and the big 5 living there:
- How much ISK you can make “The triple Dreadnought setup is around 2 billion ISK per hour” these are figures for high class systems
- Sleeper Boss farming with Astrahus is an activity you can only do in high class systems
- Locking down a systems is something not usual for lower class as they farm through their connection - You pull up the Drawbridge for farming your own system another activity suited for high class systems
CCP REMEMBER THAT ONLY "35% of players live in high-class space"
If you listen to only the big boys in an area of space you will end up ruining it for everyone except them (nulsec… cough nulsec… coughcough)
The 35% farm the system with the drawbridge pulled up and lower it to hunt in lower class systems, so to improve hunting what would they need ? … Exactly what they asked for:
- More connections to farm the lower class for fights.
- A large mass long lived wormhole that allows you raid a connection and have enough time to destroy all the structures in it without the effort of seeding it and camping the system.
If you are one of the “big 5” that can defend against it, these requested changes work really well - as for the 65% in smaller groups that don’t have the numbers … you screw em !
It’s less ‘listen to’ you have to worry about, and more ‘try to balance it around’. Baseline target performance should be, you know, aimed at the baseline user. Then you find ways to introduce inefficiencies at scale, so that there’s a point where you can either maximize the income that’s possible, or maximize the number of people that income can support.
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