What has that got to do with whether the fight in PvP is always balanced or not?
Postscript: I was under the impression ED was an outlier because it allowed you to avoid PvP combat while still taking active part in factionalised warfare against other people? I mean, one thing I dislike about ED is the fact that you can just go “invisible”, which isnt even needed as its ridiculously easy to evade an interdiction, but thats a tangent.
When you know that you will be in PvP, you gain the skills to survive. When you’re not sure, or you think you’re just tooling around highsec safely, then you run into issues.
ED created the ability to play in a solo universe - like invisible on steroids. Technically stuff is still going on, but you don’t see it and therefore can’t be directly effected by it. There’s still PvP economics going on though as the economy is still being influenced by other players. It’s weird, but it gives you the choice - PvP or no PvP. If I join the open universe, I know I have to be ready to fight, or risk losing my ship.
Except you dont have to fight because evading interdictions is a doddle and thanks to this mode the universe is empty except for moronic npcs.
Theres also no player market, so very little reason for it to be multiolayer and online at all.
None of this has anything to do with whether PvP shpuld always allow a “fair” fight, the point I was replying to.
I agree that fights can be horribly one-sided. What I meant was that there is a mechanic to avoid PvP entirely in nearly all MMO’s. Your original note about how a player should expect PvP just like in every MMO is what I was getting at here. Players do not expect to have no choice except PvP in the majority of MMO’s. This is what leads to newbies feeling demoralized when they get ganked in HS in their first few hours outside the tutorial.
I didnt say that.
I said that when PvP occurs, why should EvE be different from every other MMO by making the fight automatically fair.
Sounds like an absolute carebear’s paradise. So, why don’t they go and play that game instead?
Oh, I know! Because every single person who’s played ED that I’ve talked to, including two hardcore-carebear friends of mine, said that it was boring and unfulfilling as ■■■■, like some kind of Grant Theft Auto game in single-player mode with no story or missions, and just an occasional pedestrian walking down the street or car passing by. No other players to play with unless you basically “queue for the arena,” which you can then chicken out and avoid anyway, and no one to validate your efforts by giving value to your economic output.
Does every MMO need to be the same, just for the sake of not “demoralizing” some new players?
Nope, not at all - but no one can be surprised at the rage-quits when this happens. You cannot have it both ways. Hardcore and learning cliff means less players (and less money for CCP/PA). Choice to PvE means more new players stay longer. The numbers bear it out, year over year we’re trending down.
Eve still has a lot of years left, but the thread question was "why are people throwing a fit in the forums before leaving - the answer is that they’re surprised, unhappy, demoralized, and don’t want to play anymore. I wish to continue to play, because I find the game amazing. But if I had been ganked 30 seconds outside the NPE, then found out two weeks later that my skills would be nerfed to hell, then found out two weeks later that some change would take the price of everything I sell… I’d probably rant here too. In my case I got lucky, the first several weeks were great. Then I got used to the mechanics. I didn’t end up in “WTF” territory until about a month in, and the game already had its hooks in me.
People get upset and rant when the game appears to be less value than the risk attached. I don’t think the rants are really necessary; though I can’t begrudge players from venting.
But by god if they don’t get told that what they are doing is going to be flushed by people that should know better. Then it doesn’t really matter does it. Just imagine a player who has been playing a few months venturing into the forum and finding the mining blog thread. By the time they get half way through Fridays knee jerk reactions based on zero testing and moronic claims of the waste mechanic killing our yield they will want to biomass their character.
This stuff is made an issue for new players by old players who just want to spread their misery as far as possible.
wow, apparently touched a nerve there…
Personal insults don’t do you credit - you are perfectly capable of stating your case and position logically without them.
It wasn’t aimed at you, it was aimed in general at the players who engage in the rookie-corrupting behavior I outlined.
Unless you do it too, in which case it was aimed at you as well.
Nah. I did get sandy about the changes to mining that are coming up - but not because they are wrong to make. I got upset because CCP tried to make it sound like a wonderful new thing, when in essence ti is a push to get more Omega players. Nothing at all wrong with that (Eve is a business and must make revenue) - I just don’t like someone pissing on my head and telling me it’s raining.
I do not, engage in the usual “every change is wrong waaaaaaaaaaa” crap. Not worth it, and generally speaking the changes aren’t actually all that bad.
The only time I’ve ever posted to a game forum that I was leaving was Boundless - and yeah, Eve is nowhere near the steaming pile of crap that game turned itself into. Eve is not perfect, but frankly it’s a lot better than a LOT of games out there.
lol
Looks like they removed my post because it touched their nerve. Which is ironic, since I’m on CCP’s side with these changes.
I didn’t think it was THAT bad.
A bit rough, but not bad enough to get it deleted LOL
The fact that it was removed so quickly, without even being reported/hidden first, makes me suspect either some form of bias, or very clear instructions passed down to the ISD to paint a rosier picture of EVE for potential/new players taking a look on the forums.
That, or they’re concerned with anyone stoking the fire by arguing against the players “protesting” in Jita because they think the situation will get worse before it gets better. Either way, it was suspicious just how quickly that post was removed. Also, I’ve posted much more radical and confrontational stuff in the past when talking about carebear veterans exploiting and manipulating new players for their personal gain.
If anything, I would have suspected they’d have asked you to edit it (while it was hidden) - you are correct that a lot of established players do take massive advantage of newbies.
Righteous tears of entitlement.
Mr Epeen 
Sometimes it feels good to cry away the pain.
More sounds like Righteous tears of Being Right! … Even someone does not wish to be right about something sad in essence.
though I will point out the irony of us discussing why there may be benefit to some of these rant threads.
Then someone rants
Then their post gets deleted.
If you’re going to post anything in agreement with what I say, make sure to provide evidence that you aren’t my alt. Screenshot of accounts tied to your e-mail address from the account management page, browser history, router and geolocation logs, a selfie of you holding your passport and driver license, etc. You don’t want the geriatric to gum at you with accusations of being a sock puppet that will end your EVE forum-posting career in shame and disgrace.
I don’t mind that it was, I just find is suspicious that it was gone within like ten minutes, before it was reported by anyone (aside from maybe baldie up there). Usually posts get hidden before they’re removed.