These statements all reflect various errors in focus. Sure, EVE PvE won’t appeal to the mainstream, but neither will EVE PvP. “Compared to other games” both aspects are dull, slow and boring.
Also, EVE is factually and demonstrably, primarily a PvE game with a comparatively small but pervasive PvP element in it. All the stats ever published by CCP shows that PvE generates 3-4 times the activity, accounts and logins that PvP does.
PvE brings in the money and most of the players, PvP is what keeps EVE’s niche viable. There really isn’t any point to playing EVE unless you have some type of interest in the “PvE with a dash of PvP in it” element.
EVE isn’t built around players shooting other players. It isn’t even very good at supporting that aspect of play. EVE is built around a large space economy simulator, with something like 60% of it being the PvE/economy core, 20% PvP, and 20% people sitting AFK wondering what to do next.
The big questions EVE needs to address aren’t about PvE players vs. PvP players. It’s about injecting a modicum of entertainment, excitement and interest into a game that’s become mostly tedious and stale. There are exceptions of course, but for too many players, too much of the time, EVE has simply become uninteresting/unrewarding for them. So they head elsewhere.
Yes, because that’s an example. It’s an example of how few kills with numbers well above the average can pull up the average. You claim is that at average (more specifically a mean) on 400m means that “most” of the kills are high value. It doesn’t, because the average is pulled up my things many times over the average.
If zkillboard showed median values then you would have an argument for what “most” are, but it doesn’t, so any claim you make about “most” kills is false.
If you want to shows me the list of 29,000 high value kills you claim exists though, go ahead.
I’m not getting into a debate over alts. It doesn’t go anywhere, it doesn’t mean anything, it doesn’t push a resolution between difference in opinion. In short, it’s not constructive. If you don’t want to talk to people you feel are alts then don’t respond.
No, that’s a very twisted interpretation. I don’t see people who enjoy cooperative play to be inherently weak. That’s a projection you’re making based on your preferred playstyle.
I’m not the only one to say it. Many gankers have made the claim that mainstream MMO audiences don’t like forced PvP, usually as a way to insult them, but it’s just the reality. MMO markets contain a lot more casual players than they did 20 years ago.
Gosh…this reeks of fallacy. I mean, the ‘stats’ may be correct but the interpretation isn’t.
I mean, sure, yes, I have killed several thousand rats in my time in Eve. Most of my ‘kills’ in Eve have been in a Venture while mining. Hundreds of NPC rats that never go on killboard and just get ignored in the grand scheme of things. Likewise with combat anomalies. Hundreds of NPCs killed. This makes it look, statswise, as though my main ‘interest’ is PvE…but the reality is that I was actually mining and the rats just happened to show up, and I was doing anomalies solely to raise my security status. The actual combat with NPCs was incidental to the real motive.
Obviously my actual PvP kills number is way less…and probably always will be almost by definition.
So I sense that this is precisely what also distorts CCPs sense of PvE being the ‘primary’ interest in Eve. And it would be a false perception.
It’s an example that makes 1% difference. Again I ask…as you keep on ignoring it…where is your data that explains the other 99% ? It’s a simple enough request. Do you have that data or not ? Yes or no will do.
It is quite clear from the absence of any such data that the answer is ‘no’…and all your jabberwocky word salad cannot evade that. I rest my case.
It’s an example that shows a small number of high value kills can have a huge impact on the average. That means you can’t just point at an average and then make a claim for what it means for “most”.
You made the claim that most of their kills are high value. So the onus is on you to provide us with a list of a little over 29,000 high value kills. I’ve proven mathematically that your previous “proof” is inaccurate, so the ball is in your court. Provide the proof or admit that you’re a liar.
Well, you’ve demonstrated any number of times on the forum that when numbers, statistics and charts conflict with your preferred beliefs, you’re quite ready to dismiss them all and substitute some personal anecdote instead.
That’s fine, plenty of forum posters have little acquaintance with basing their arguments on verifiable data.
You should be aware, however, there are more data sources pertaining to EVE than Zkillboard. And that the phrase “PvE generates 3-4 times the activity, accounts and logins that PvP does” covers a broader range than “ship kills”. And that it doesn’t refer to the reason, or intent, or primary interest of the player - only to what they actually do.
What players actually do, for the most part, is PvE/economy simulator. PvP is a minority activity within EVE, regardless of how you feel about it.
No…you completely missed my point about PvE being purely incidental for many. Someone ratting for clone soldier tags may be ‘doing’ PvE but they are doing it to raise their security status for PvP ganking, for example. Thus a lot of PvP has to be done via PvE. Likewise someone mining may be doing so to get the ISK for a PvP fitted ship. It is impossible, without bringing in PLEX, not to do some form of PvE in order to do PvP.
So of course there will be more PvE than PvP…not least because PvE rewards are so low and so much of it has to be done. But to argue that this makes Eve a ‘PvE game’ is to get the cart before the horse for many players.
In the context it makes no sense though. 1% difference to what? Clearly high value kills have a lot more impact on the average than 1%. It just seems like it’s some vague attempt for you to handwave the argument because you know you’ve made a mistake and won’t admit to it.
Blowing your credibility out of the window is entirely your choice. It’s up to the rest of us to interpret it.
Cooperative gameplay ? LOL, that’s not what no-ganking means, on the contrary. You advocate for no-interaction pve gameplay, because you can’t be bothered to take the game for what it is and adjust your way of doing things. You want a massive soloing online game. Let’s get real here.
You can play Eve online casually. But that is also not what you want. You want to progress to the same levels of isk in your wallet, and the same ships in your hangar as dedicated players but from a casual playstyle. It seems you haven’t grasped the reality of the Eve economy on top of the rest. It’s not going to happen. Dream on or wait until someone develops a game to your liking, coz this one’s fulfilling its market niche.
So I can assume from that you won’t be backing up your claims with facts? WE both know the fact would show that most of Safety’s kills fall well short of 400m ISK
Well you credibility is also shot until you post on your main then.
Yep.
I do? Where?
Moreso now than in the past and moreso in the future than now. That’s why you’re upset, because CCP is increasingly catering to people who don’t make playing EVE their career.
Do I? I don’t much care what ISK or ships other people have as long as I can enjoy the game with the time I have available to play.
If you’re so sure EVE will never change (too late, it already has which is why I can just buy skills now) then why are you spending so much time arguing?
It is your own total failure to do that that has led to me putting you on ignore…along with all your other troll alts. I have no desire to discuss anything with so dishonest a person. Sayonara.
The problem with discussions on these forums, is that people put other people in defined categories and then they argue the person not the actual text.
I haven’t argued in this thread that PvP should be the focus or that EvE PvP is somehow mainstream.
All I’m saying is that the current PvE just doesn’t cut it, if the goal is to attract more or new players. The point I’m trying to make is closer to the below, but people can’t seem to detach themselves from “He is not a PvE lover, therefore I hate him”.
I think the issue is because you’re focusing on the PvE being “not good enough”, which may lead people to assume you feel the PvP or other aspects are fine.
Clearly, neither the PvE, the PvP, the economy simulator, the social tools nor the pretty (and bright!) space scenery is “cutting” it to attract more and new players. Hence the player count trends.
Or, it’s possible some of those areas are good enough, but CCP isn’t reaching the audience that would take interest. Or that CCP reaches that audience, and gets them to try the game, but fails to communicate how EVE might interest those players long-run.
One of the reasons I try to stick to data-based debate where possible, is exactly because opinion statements are by their nature a bit vague and fuzzy and often assumes the reader knows where you’re going with your point. It’s been my experience that if you don’t clarify your intent enough, people assume whatever they normally do.
