Ganking, or rather the Right to Gank

(Clockwork Robot) #710

If the gankers really only used two systems… Then there wouldn’t be much ganking, would there?

You’re probably my favorite poster, but sometimes I think there is some dissonance in what you claim. (Like you need to care about my thinks.)

If there is one thing that reading the miner bumping website has taught me, it is that you can in fact avoid being ganked. Yes it does require effort, but at the end of the day, CODE is not above throwing 50 catalysts at a single Target just to make a point.

I don’t think there is a counter to that, not by playing smart or being prepared. I don’t think there should be a counter to that. Overwhelming DPS is by its very nature supposed to be overwhelming. All well and good. But you still can’t do anything about it. And there’s still no reason to keep playing if you think that’s going to be your fate.

(No, I don’t think you have 50 ship squads for every kill.)

I do believe it is possible to avoid being bumped. I do think it is possible to avoid being ganked. I don’t think that it is confined to just the two systems you are claiming. And if it were really, truly just as simple as doing the things you sometimes suggest, then CODE would never have gotten off the ground in the first place.

What CODE does is effective, not simply because CODE is so good at doing it… But because the mechanics themselves are effective. Ergo, not as easy to avoid or Escape as you might sometimes claim.

(Ima Wreckyou) #711

There are very few systems where freighters get ganked regularly. Obviously that does not mean that there are no ganks elsewhere, but the BIG majority is in the 0.5 systems between Jita and Amarr, for the simple fact that you have the biggest traffic with the most valuable stuff, the slowest CONCORD response time (which saves money). Imagine what you need to have in a system to get this ganks going. You need scouts on the routes in, you need the ships and the gank chars obviously and bumpers. You don’t just set that up anywhere but in locations where it is worth it and it is not super mobile.

There are actually routes around those systems. And there are other options than freighters which are not susceptible to bumps.

Also the ting is that this ganks are pretty rare. I don’t doubt that if it hits you it is a big loss, but I mean seriously look at some of those freighters those people lose… there is almost no week where there isn’t someone feeding a 50+bil thing to the gankers. Now people will obviously say “this is so unbalanced!!! 50bil ISK and you just pay a fraction of that to kill it!!”…

Only a couple years ago, something like this wouldn’t have even be thinkable because no one in his right mind would have shipped that amount in a single freighter. I remember one time when CCP ■■■■■■ up the routing system and some guy went on a trip to lowsec with a 4bil ISK freighter. This was HUGE and everyone was kinda shocked that someone would move so much stuff around.

So what happened? Highsec got more and more secure, people get lazy and expect it to be save. And they put more and more into this freighters, because kills get rarer but because they are fatter they are bigger and get all the attention and demands for balance… to get even more secure… to get even more lazy and stuff even more into the freighter.

Those big fat 50+bil whales, they are indeed a symptom of an unbalanced Highsec. They are the clear sign that there is NO RISK FOR HAULING STUFF and not for ganking.

And for people who just say that even the potential that they might die makes them dock up… there is just nothing this game can do for you, sorry… if you undock a ship that is the value you put on the table in a round of EVE so to speak. If you are not comfortable taking that risk, let others do it for you, that is what contracts are for.

(Clockwork Robot) #712

That quote really made me laugh. :smiley:

(holdmybeer) #713

While a 50 bil thing, aka just one freighter worth 50 bil per week is probably less common occurence that previously stated, one fact remains: One of our our elite pilots from Gate Tax Collection Agency basicly kills 40 bil each day he logs in. Sometimes solo, sometimes with other CODE. pilots.

And even when all mechanics are literally against him, he still manages to catch the whales trying to haul redicilous amounts of ISK all the way from null-sec to Jita, simply because he is so good at doing it.

(YOY Didyoudoit) #714

I agree. If it is so safe that there is no risk, the exonomy will most likely fail.

(YOY Didyoudoit) #715

How can you get an active freighter though with Concord? I mean one that is not AFK? I know it takes them a bit to warp from a gate but you can get through that hull before you get taken out by concord? Just curious?

(Aiko Danuja) #716

I feel that ganking needs a buff. CONCORD should be removed so that everyone can enjoy a truly fair fight.

(Jonah Gravenstein) #717

What is this fair thing?

(Old Pervert) #718

It’s not as crazy as it first sounds. Ganking targets have an instant i-win given to them. Concord comes and blaps everyone that attacked them.

I don’t think concord should be removed… but I think that they should be regular ships with AI 2.0 on them. Make fighting concord a thing again, and make the economics of ganking more favourable to extracting your ships rather than suiciding.

(Clockwork Robot) #719

Do you think gankers may instead continue to simply use the cheapest available solutions, and just take the loss on the chin?

(Old Pervert) #720

I’m sure some would. But honestly, if it’s more financially viable to just bring some logi and fight off the Concord response team, I imagine some would.

I’ve nothing against ganking. But in the interest of engaging gameplay, I do believe it would be a more enjoyable game without suicide. I love the idea that every loss matters. It’s very Eve to me.

(NotTheSmartestCookie) #721

But in all likelihood in order to provide a “balanced” experience the NPC response would need to ramp up so fast (or be totally ineffective) that there is no real difference with CONCORD anyways.

(Sepheir Sepheron) #722

All mechanics against him
Can’t be tackled
Can move freely to any target
Low isk investment
Low sp requirements
Free ship scans
Slow massive targets
Extremely pricey kills


(Daichi Yamato) #723

You’re very disingenuous. Unfortunately a common trait amongst carebears:

  • Why cant he be tackled?
  • Who can’t move freely to any target?
  • Isk ivestment is a choice we ALL have.
  • So is sp ivestment.
  • Everyone gets free ship scans. And free scouts. And free killboard intel. And free web alts.
  • choosing slow targets because you are incapable of hitting fast targets is NOT an advantage. Lie more please.
  • How is pricey targets an advantage?

Meanwhile, their ships are considered lost from the moment they gank, it requires lots of players to be effective and the penalties against their character are so heavy that only alts gank.

(Sepheir Sepheron) #724

It’s pointless to explain. It’s like arguing with a youngster who keeps saying “why”. You know exactly why.

(Galaxy Pig) #725

Comedy gold! Th-this guy realizes we started out bumping people with stabbers, right? :rofl:

Such deep, underlying butthurt that he has to throw in this lil jab. Typical. :face_with_monocle:

(Aiko Danuja) #726

I remember my anti-ganking day, when I logged into the anti-ganking channel for the first time, and learned that evildoers were stalking Uedama and Niarja. This was a great concern for me, as I hoped to travel north from Amarr and explore Jita beyond. Before I set out on this adventure, I decided that it would be prudent to introduce myself to those who fought against such danger, and offer them my dutiful service and sage counsel.

I recalled the great convoys of the Second World War, ravaged by aerial attack and the menacing threat of submarines. Surely, surely, there must be some rational means to defend against the ‘ganker’ threat. Losses were inevitable, but I knew that I could be an effective anti-ganker, because my studies of Clausewitz and Sun Tzu prepared me well. Victory was in our grasp, and would merely take… effort and perseverance. However, the other anti-gankers mocked me, gnashing their teeth with idle frustration. They were beaten and demoralized, reduced to pathetic impotence. All their years of experience came to naught, for they did not even believe in themselves.

My career as an anti-ganker came to a shuddering halt, when I learned that a freighter was about to proceed without any escort or reconnaissance. I urged caution, aware that this was a foolish blunder. The freighter pilot insisted, as he must immediately continue his advance, and would not delay his course for even one moment. Nor was he willing to allow anyone to join his fleet, or pay them one isk for protection. In that moment, before I even learned the phrase, I knew what a bot aspirant was. When his freighter burst into brilliant flames, I watched and felt regret. No, I did not regret his demise, but rather that I myself had not been the source of his demise.

On that day, I learned that there are two factions, locked in an eternal war. One group is like a swarm of locusts, mindlessly descending upon the asteroids, and greedily trying to convert everything into isk. They play the game like some people play Monopoly, watching their television and talking trash while breaking nearly every rule. They hate the game, but love getting paid to sit on free parking. The other group seeks some higher purpose. They actually play to win, and they’ve got the rules memorized. Day after day, year after year, they crush the foul beasts, purging the galaxy of this plague. I knew which side I would support.

(Clockwork Robot) #727

Those cherry-picked bits were so far back in my post history that even I forgot I had written them.

Makes you look kind of desperate.

(Aiko Danuja) #728

I assure you that there ARE things anti-gankers could do to alleviate ganks. For example (and you won’t like this at all), EVE is a multiplayer wargame with aspects of diplomacy. If you got a permit, you might just find yourself on the winning team, instead of the losing team. Believe it or not, there are CODE. compliant freighters, and even CODE. rorquals. Unfortunately, fools insist upon being fools, and Goofus will goofus. It’s like playing chess with somebody, and they always insist upon bringing their blingy queen out first, loitering in the middle of a high security zone. When you try to help them, gently nudging and bumping them back into a more effective formation, they whine and complain and ask who are you to tell them how to play. Eventually, you decide that if you have to play this kind of person, you are just going to destroy them.

Learned helplessness is a terrible thing, especially when combined with the Dunning-Kruger effect.

(Daichi Yamato) #729

You mean you can’t cause it’s BS.