If someone trashes all their titans or firesells them, that doesn’t make mine less valuable, outside of a temporary market effect.
To me it IS value. A rolling value. I am not selling the SKINs NOW, I am selling an event from 2 years ago now. Thus this effort will pay out, given the correct decisions made regarding it. If you are wasteful with your resources, you wont extract it’s full value, but if you KNOW it will increase in value in literally 2 weeks, defining its value by its worth during the time of glut is just bad finances.
I get what you are saying, though I would argue that many of our concepts of “lucritive” in EVE are super flawed. This has nothing to do with personal taste of the product however, this is about how to get the most out of the sites. I have found, over years of doing these, that the best way to get the value is to run the crap out of them, sell the stuff on day one, then bank the rest for a few months. This doesn’t make the stuff not valuable, it just makes throwing it away during the event to be pretty silly.
Lucritivity of an task isn’t defined by how much it is worth right this second. You can invest your time as well as your ISK, knowing you will get a return. I would agree that if you want ISK NOW there are lots of better ways of doing it then event sites. Event sites rewards take time, as do ALL special edition products. Rarity takes time here.
As far as ignoring other costs, once the ball is rolling, there really isn’t additional costs… I run sites and make isk. A fair chunk is in the payouts, and some of it is in longer term investments. SKINs are ALWAYS a long term investment if you expect to get the most out of them.
nobody cares. We are talking about the value of a site event, more specifically about the value of the accelerators. AFAIK event sites don’t drop titans.
same.
You are making up values to increase your feeling. It just shows that you are bad t math.
Yes it is. Because we are talking about a farming activity. If we were talking about long-term hoarding on isks, by definition the value is on the long term.
You don’t know, you bet. and as always, better are bad at math - and end up losing their value.
They don’t. That’s a different activity from running them.
I am not even sure what you mean here… my point is other peoples wastefulness doesn’t have to mean my investment is devalued, in spite of a momentary market effect.
You are not making a point, you are talking about something else.
Again : you don’t NEED to do the event to get the items, you can buy them now and resell them later. So it’s not the activity of doing the site that has the long-term value, but of holding the items. The sites in themselves are not lucrative when the only value is projected in 2years.
Oh, something else. I’m pretty sure that my efficiency exceeds that of the average player, so even if the prices bottom out, I could technically do better by farming than by buying from the market.
Of course there is the opportunity cost (I could be doing my normal PvE), but like I said, I like breaking up the monotony.
What I understand you to be saying is that the value of things are what you can sell it for now. Right now there is a glut of things so people are doing utterly foolish things with them, the equivalent of trashing them.
This does NOT devalue MY collection, it simply means selling SKINs during the event in which they drop is a fantastically stupid idea. I refuse to calculate my efforts based on fantastically stupid ideas. I know and have proven over and over again how to get value out of these sites. Being dismissive of the value simply because we are in a time of glut is silly.
Yes you can invest and buy them in Jita from the silly people, but that doesn’t mean I am not getting value for my time. I don’t NEED to throw everything away right now for a little ISK. I know these things will be worth it.
That said, you seem both argumentative and fixed in your ways. It is fine for us to disagree on how to think about our finances and investments. My point is that it isn’t as simple as “It is worth what you can sell it for right this very second”, and other ways of working with it isn’t
NOT fireselling your things is not an “additional activity”, and yes, selling your products during the event itself is the equivalent of fireselling.
As a follow up… I can’t find any accelerators that sold for 7 million during an event. The CH ones sold for 70-100 mill a pop.
As a final note (I am going to bed) I would like to stress that 2 years is not a long time in EVE, and the value of these items will increase in 2 weeks, not 2 years, I used the 2 year old event as an extream example where things went from 1 million to 50+
What I’m saying is that to estimate the reward from a site, you should only look at the amount of isk you make NOW from them.
If you feel like an item is worth hoarding, then BUY THEM from the market. Don’t farm them, that’s stupid.
Instead, do an activity that rewards MORE per hour and buy the items with the excess isk you make.
If you claim that the event sites are worth more because the items will costs more later, you are WRONG.
Only if you are bad at maths.
No, you only proved that you are bad at math.
No it’s not fine, because you are claiming BS.
Just because an item will cost more later, does not mean it’s worth investing on it. And if it’s not worth investing on it, it means that your activity that relies on investing on it, is at loss.
Did you purchase purity skins in mass ? no, Becasue it’s not worth investing on them ! And did you consider the loot of the sites on short term as worth ? No !
So magically two things that are not worth it when you make them separately, become worth it when you do both of them ? THAT is stupid.
it’s 70->300M in one year, that’s a gain of +35% / month, that’s as much as I do with industry for my lowest values. BUT look at the volume, it’s 1/day ! Selling it is a miracle at this rate.
sacrilege is 50->150 M, so +9.6%/month
providence is 100->200M, so 6%/month.
Then all the other are worse.
I can’t believe I had to log in just to continue arguing with someone on the internet, but here we are.
Supply and demand is dictated by both supply AND demand. So supply can be quite high, but as long as demand outpaces it, prices will remain relatively high. Like, McDonalds sells a quintillion hamburgers a year, but it’s apparently still lucrative for them to do so.
So yes, even with ubiquitous sites and good loot drop rates, events can still be lucrative. Especially, if the sites aren’t newbro friendly (which excludes a lot of players) and you have an above average efficiency (which allows you to get collect loot faster than the average participant).
But really, I can’t believe I got sidetracked into discussing economics with you, because we don’t have to debate economic principles, make predictions, or any of that, because events sites have indeed been both ubiquitous and extrinsically lucrative.
If you mean that the items acquired in the site got value over time, and you did not invest heavily on them, then it means the investment on those items was not worth it, so that only the instant value could have been.
The last sites I liked : drifter BS, sleeper, white dwarf, blood harvest, were interesting and I did them, but they were not worth the time, besides the polar one and the drifter one, and the drifter one was because you needed to scan down the sigs, and it was quite difficult to do the escalations unless you were in a team of three tanked BS. The polar one was because the sites were limited so you actually needed a frigate to do them efficiently (I used an enyo and after a few tests a manticore, both with hyperspatial rigs - the manticore was a bit faster but I lost two while I only lost one enyo - actually a friend lost it, the enyo was very tanky as long as you kept moving).
Besides yellowjacket and drugs, the items were not worth investing in them (but you could not know yet) and yellowjacket was not farmable (bought several at 200M, sold them later at 1b5).
My resources don’t care what sells in any given day. The fact that something may be slow to sell is not important to my ability to provide for myself. If you want to only evaluate your effort based on a known highly devalued price, I guess you do you…
It’s not devaluated. It’s the value it is worth.
YOU evaluate the price more than it is worth, at a value you set after that, and ignoring the need to wait for the income. An investment must take into account the value gained, per month, which you ignore. You assume that gaining 50% value is worth it, whatever is the time you have to wait for those 50% to come back. It’s not.
Again, if it was worth keeping those items, you could just mass buy them in the market and sell them later. If you don’t, that means your investment is not worth it.
I don’t evaluate my efforts. I evaluate the value of farming an event’s sites, in order to compare to other activities I can do. So that I can tell if it’s worth for me to do the event, isk wise. Does not prevent me from buying lots of stuff from the market.
What you would rather do and what someone else would rather do are two completely different things.
Someone may not want to buy them off the market to hold onto them to make trader profits. Maybe they want to run the content for themselves for the change in pace from their normal ISK making activities.
Who cares if they sell them now with high supply and make less. Or hold onto them when supply is more limited and sell them for more. That is their own decision. Prices fluctuate. Item value changes, sometimes daily…
I personally find the sites worth it. While i’m not making more isk/h immediately like I would spamming missions or anoms, I am getting a change in pace doing different content. Then I can choose to sell the event specific items now or I can hold onto them and sell them at a later date in which the supply is not as inflated and get more of a return. If it brings in 10% less isk in the long haul of what my normal activity would have done then oh well. I got a change in scenery.
I already have my industry stuff going. I have no desire to go set up more orders and buy more ■■■■ out of my already targeted market as they are already profitable for me. I do however want a change in pace / new activities to do while my more passive isk making machine is grinding away. That is where the events come in. A break from the norm… for people who like a break from monotony.
I did not claim that people should not do them. I even did them myself. What I claim however is that claiming they are “lucrative” because the items that drop can be more expensive later, is a flawed way of finding out if they are worth it or not.
What I also claim, is that taking into account the instant value of the loot, the value of the events that were easily available was always crumbled under the value of events that were more difficult to do, and by the fact taht the value depends on offer and demand, you can’t have both “lucrative” and “ubiquitous” events.
This does not mean that farming the events is bad.
The point your making is that people are speculating on a price rise on a limited supply item ( The limited supply being the speculation as maybe CCP decides to make the skin readily available in some other fashion or the implants). Due to this speculation you say its flawed in determining the value of the activity.
Speculation is a very common thing in any Eve activity. Some guy is speculating that mineral / componet prices are going to be relatively stable so he invest in building X. He does his math and sees ZZ% profit. Market changes due to a large import and now his profit margins have collapsed and his business venture in ruins.
By your reasoning now that industry activity is not worth it… because it is speculative.
Group A wants to go pvp. They are speculating they will find PvP. They roam for several hours… they find no PvP. Their speculative decision to go pvping in that region of space failed and did not yield their expected result … AKA pvp.
Roaming in said region is not worth it because they only MAY find pvp.
The blingy mission runner that runs missions in quiet space and still gets ganked whom was operating under the speculation that he wont get ganked here. His mission running was not profitable because it was based on speculation that an unforeseen variable goes his way.
Speculation is rooted in every part of the game.
Hence… what you would rather do and what they would rather do are completely different.
Nothing in Eve is guranteed to go your way. There is no definitive wholly proven and irrefutable way to predict the outcome of a situation. Therefore we speculate on the most likely course of action…
In this case the likely course of action for a limited supply item is that the supply will dwindle over time and said item’s market value will increase. Leading this guy to have the opinion that the sites are worth it because the items are a limited supply item.
I agree with his analysis of the situation and the opinion he has of the event. If someone is concerned about it not going that way or they want instant gratification then that is their choice and they are free to do another activity and skip the event.
It’s fine to speculate. But it should not be associated to an activity it does not require. If you consider the value of farming by taking into account the value of another activity (speculation), while this other activity can be done out of said farming, you are artificially increasing your income value.
What’s more, if both the farming and the speculation are not worth it, and you claim that speculation makes the farming worth it, you are wrong.
Who in the world would you use that kind of sentence ? Only people who claim BS. The reality is, they hope to find something. that’s not speculation.
That point of yours is stupid. You distort the meaning of words in order to make them fit in a stupid sentence. It shows nothing, besides BS.
were talking about speculation that the price of an item will rise
Investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with the risk of loss.
So you just copied and pasted a very speicific section from a dictionary page. You know what the first thing on that page is…
Speculation -
The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
‘there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit’
‘this is pure speculation on my part’
‘these are only speculations’
Speculation can be related to more than just price and finance. What is ■■■■■■■■ is you trying to change the narrative of something to a very narrow view that you have to tell someone that their opinion is wrong. What I did is relate the speculative nature of any aspect of eve whether industry / pve / pvp. That nothing is guaranteed to yield the results you anticipate.
Like that dictionary reference. You skipped the first entry of its definition to go to the portion that relates only to finance to say that I am using a word incorrectly.
We now have descended to you being a stickler of the English language as your point of argument. The english language is largely based on context. I can speculate that you have a higher chance of finding pvp in said region of space all day. Just because you dont like how I use the word does not make it any less viable.
My entire post was about the speculative nature of any activity in eve and how people can decide if it is worth it themselves and they can have their opinion on the matter. If your going to place value on an item and the rewards it yields that are not directly ISK then you have to take into consideration the market unless you are instantly selling to peoples orders.
So the value of event loot. This loot is limited supply item. Limited supply item’s value is a variable that changes based on the supply and demand of an item. Therefore one must speculate on the value of said items and how their value will change if they want an accurate picture on whether or not the event is worth their time. This is a decision they have to make for themselves based on other peoples or their own opinion.
Saying limited supply items require no speculation in determining their real value is absurd as said value can change significantly.