Hi Sec

[Dracvlad]

I have suggested an increase of 20% in the base value of the mining drones in terms of yield for the Orca, nothing more than that. I cannot see that being a huge issue at all.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Paddehatten

If they make so you can’t activate industrial mode in high sec it actually won’t be a problem.

And yet you are trying to bring the orca to the same mining level as a rorqual with no core activated, but with excavator drones.

A rorqual with 5 excavator drones but no core on, mines around the same as a single, unboosted hulk.

[Paddehatten]

(INDUSTRIAL MODE) Can’t activate/deploy in high sec.

Problem solved.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Dracvlad

Putting words in my mouth, I did not write that. I made no mention at all of the value of ore in hisec or nullsec, you did.

Okay, so what else regarding the hisec ore belts would the rorqual be utterly unbalanced against?

[Solonius_Rex]

@Paddehatten

Problem solved.

And what about the massive hp of the rorqual? How do you solve that one?

[Dom_Arkaral]

Allow supers and titans in highsec of course! Lmao

[Dracvlad]

@Dracvlad

I have suggested an increase of 20% in the base value of the mining drones in terms of yield for the Orca, nothing more than that. I cannot see that being a huge issue at all.

That is what I suggested.

You are directing your question at the wrong person, I pointed out that your misconception about the Rorqual being banned from hisec was down purely to safety, I said no because the belts and anoms in hisec being so small would make the Rorqual unbalanced in its present form.

Just look at the strawmen go

[Solonius_Rex]

@Dom_Arkaral

Allow supers and titans in highsec of course!

Of course! Just ban their weapons in hisec.

Let’s ignore the problem of massive EHP that a titan autopiloting through hisec would have, making it essentially unkillable. Who cares about that.

[Dom_Arkaral]

It’s of obvious non-importance!

It wouldn’t upset the current balance!!111

Hahahah
Gotta love that logic

[Solonius_Rex]

@Dracvlad

hisec was down purely to safety, I said no because the belts and anoms in hisec being so small would make the Rorqual unbalanced in its present form.

I’m not sure where you got that from, I said clearly that it was a large part, but not purely, no.

It’s a large concern regarding how killable a ship in hisec is. Someone in an npc Corp and a fully fit rorq, that cannot be ganked unless someone brings in 300 people, is absurdly overpowered, and far more of a larger concern because it prevents someone from countering a rorqual in a belt.

[Dracvlad]

@Solonius_Rex

I’m not sure where you got that from, I said clearly that it was a large part, but not purely, no.

Here:

@Solonius_Rex

You’re getting tired of that argument, because you have no valid response to it.

Here’s a big surprise. Any ship can go to null and lowsec. There is no restriction for any ship that prevents it from going to nullsec.

But there is a restriction to enter hisec, for some ships. The reason why, is because of how SAFE hisec is.

Being unable to move in hisec, does nothing. It takes 30 seconds to warp with an orca, which Is longer than Concord response time, so you’re not moving anywhere anyways.

Being unable to warp in nullsec or lowsec for 5 minutes, is huge. Wanna guess why? Because anyone can shoot you, for however long they wish. Without Concord interference. Yeah.

That is all you mentioned, you made no mention of the small belts and small anoms in hisec which is the main reason.

@Solonius_Rex

It’s a large concern regarding how killable a ship in hisec is. Someone in an npc Corp and a fully fit rorq, that cannot be ganked unless someone brings in 300 people, is absurdly overpowered, and far more of a larger concern because it prevents someone from countering a rorqual in a belt.

No one ganks my Orca’s or my skiffs because they cannot be bothered. It is irrelevant. What will happen is that people would gank the Excavators instead, which you seem to be ignoring when they are the main cost of a Rorqual. But anyway it is a strawman argument on your part.

[Paddehatten]

Common man.
I never said I want the Rorq in high sec, that’s not what we are talking about here.
It’s about the Orca.
What I’m saying is I want the Orca to be more like the Rorq, I want it use excavator drones and be able to use industrial core to give it a mining buff.
Not as great as the Rorq surely the Rorq must be king, but about 2 Exumers shoulds fair to me.

Industrial core should NOT be able to activate in high sec. so it won’t mess with balance of high sec belts.

Maybe even do the same with the porpoise somehow.

I DON’T want to do anything to the Rorq at all.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Dracvlad

That is all you mentioned

Here:

@Solonius_Rex

Yes, I do think safety is a huge part.

Again, not purely, no.

@Dracvlad

No one ganks my Orca’s or my skiffs because they cannot be bothered. It is irrelevant.

Unless you’re going to claim that no orcas or skiffs are ganked, your statement is meaningless.

Orcas and skiffs can, and do, get ganked, frequently, in hisec, with a dozen gank ships.

And yet a rorqual hull alone, has 8 times more EHP than an orca hull. This is ignoring the fact that rorqs can equip capital modules, including capital shield extenders and boosters.

You dont think this is an important aspect? That this isnt a huge issue and consideration why they aren’t in hisec?

[Dracvlad]

@Solonius_Rex

Again, not purely, no.

You said that afterwards.

@Solonius_Rex

Unless you’re going to claim that no orcas or skiffs are ganked, your statement is meaningless.

Orcas and skiffs can, and do, get ganked, frequently, in hisec, with a dozen gank ships.

Ganks happen for certain reasons, the first point is that people do come into conflict over belts in strategic locations, most notably ice belts and good mining systems close to Jita. Almost all Orca’s that are ganked have been ganked moving stuff through the pipes. The few that are ganked outside of the pipes are in a couple of ice systems and in a couple of 0.5 and 0.6 systems near Jita.

I am mining in complete safety in my Orca and Skiff because I chose to mine in a system out of the way and no one wants to bother me because of that. Whether I was in a Rorqual, an Orca or a Skiff it makes no difference, no one is coming to gank me.

Of course in those key fought over systems a Rorqual would be an issue, but the main reason is the simple fact that they would hoover up all of the ore very quickly.

In a sense it is meaningless because to get at a person Rorqual mining you would just gank his Excavators which are very very expensive so in real terms you are incorrect because that is what would be ganked. You made such a song and dance about a fitted Rorqual earlier and yet you ignore this.

Anyway…

[Solonius_Rex]

@Paddehatten

What I’m saying is I want the Orca to be more like the Rorq, I want it use excavator drones and be able to use industrial core to give it a mining buff.
Not as great as the Rorq surely the Rorq must be king, but about 2 Exumers shoulds fair to me.

You’re the one who wrote, twice, that deactivating cores would be a way that you think would be okay to allow rorquals in hisec. This is completely ignoring the aspect of rorqual EHP. And this is the problem you seem to have.

With the three mining barges, each mining barge excels in one area but is lacking in others. Yield is not the only consideration. Ore hold, EHP, these are also important considerations.

Orcas base stats have 8 times the base EHP of skiffs, and 5 times the ore hold of a base ore hold of a mackinaw.

And yet it already mines as good as most fittings of barges.

If you are proposing to massively shrinking the ore hold, and nerfing the ehp of the orca on par with a hulk, then sure. I’m all for increasing the yield from their drones.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Dracvlad

You said that afterwards.

Yes. That’s how a discussion works.

[Paddehatten]

Yes Rorq’s in high sec would be extremely hard to kill. You’re absolutely right about that one
Rorq’s don’t belong in high sec, like all the other real capital ships they belong in low and nul sec.

But i could se the the excavator drones become a target for ganking on the Orca in high sec as they are expensive

I don’t know if excavator drones drop salvage when they are killed but that could maybe even make it worth ganking them if they did/do.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Dracvlad

Whether I was in a Rorqual, an Orca or a Skiff it makes no difference.

So, in your words, a rorqual is no different than an orca or a skiff

Gotcha

Makes your opinion on the matter irrelevant

[Dracvlad]

So you learnt something today, good.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Paddehatten

Yes Rorq’s in high sec would be extremely hard to kill. You’re absolutely right about that one
Rorq’s don’t belong in high sec, like all the other real capital ships they belong in low and nul sec.

Sure, but that’s the point about orcas. Yield isnt everything. If I want to afk mine, I’d go for a retriever or a mackinaw because it has a larger ore hold. If I was in a 0.5 sec, I’d be in a skiff or procurer because I would be scared of being ganked.

Orcas have massive ehp, massive ore holds, many times more than that of even the best barges. Now you want them to have massive yields too. What would be the point of mining barges, then?