Some ships are usually flown without propmod. Barges for example.
If you want your mining frigate to speed tank rats by orbiting the asteroid, get a 1MN afterburner. I think there are some use cases for MWD ventures too, like gas huffing.
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No, Iām not. I was responding to another post with and you lost the context.
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One of the first things you should learn in EVE is āif you canāt afford to replace it, you canāt afford to fly itā. The only activity in EVE that has no risk is ship spinning.
Iād recommend looking at the changes again. If you look through them, youāll notice buffs to HP, as well as boosts to CPU and PG. If you play around in Pyfa, youāll find that a hulk can get to 50k ehp against kin/therm. An unfit skiff gets around 40k ehp against kin/therm right now.
That means youāve gone from a single catalyst in a 0.5 to 4 catalysts in a 0.5 to kill a hulk. Mackinaws are going to come in at over 100k ehp, or 7 catalysts.
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Do you see how difficult it is to discuss balance, without bias?
I just read a very decent explanation with little to no bias, whereas you are dropping a āno youā response.
Iād say drop your ganker-bias and think about the game mechanics, as requested.
Edit: autocorrect tanker > ganker (2 times ffs)
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Thanks for posting, but it is of no use. Gankers want their easy killboard scores, and they get fed fresh miners as long as newbies are dumb enough to pay for this game. Yes, the balance is irrationally wrong, if Eve was reality ORE would never build such sitting duck ships to mine in.
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Hello there, pleased to meet you!
Thank you for your comments about my comments, Mutall. Iām sure youāll understand that I was writing in the context of Essara-Taās assertion that, since a ganker fielding a number of destroyers should not be able to eliminate a mining vessel, the game mechanics involved in such an undertaking must be ābrokenā.
She appears to hold the view that such an encounter and outcome are not ābalancedā.
She means, of course that the outcome isnāt balanced in favour of the mining vessel, in this case. I agree. Why should it be?
As James 315 wrote (I paraphrase here), an encounter between a tiger and a deer will not usually go well for the deer. It isnāt balanced - why should it be?
Deer are alert creatures, fleet of foot; but if caught unawares, well, theyāre deer-toast.
The gameās mechanics - in particular those around ganking - are set by the gameās designers. I was simply pointing out that impartiality is not something to be looked for within much of the playerbase.
I am (was) a ganker; Essara-Ta is not. We are bound to disagree. Nothing wrong with that. Iām not certain that your contribution was entirely necessary, therefore.
But I did smile wryly to myself while typing this and watching you wrestle with the auto-correct thing!
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I encourage everyone here to practice anti ganking 101. When your mining makes sure you at least make the value of your ship back so you win the ISK game at least. Watch your local at all times, have gankers marked red (this can vary from area to area.) There is a lot more but thatās what came to my head first.
Or you could just become a ganker. It is a lot of fun and the community is very welcoming.
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No thatās exactly what you said 
You gotta learn to huff that gaslight better my dude.
Game mechanics work fine. You just suck. Learn to EVE
Good thing EVE is a vidya game So you are saying you donāt play? Ah. So your opinion counts for nothing
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It definitely is, deer can run and hide well enough, the amount of meat tigers and other predators get is generally overestimated by humans, who, like gankers, just get a defenceless vacuum-sealed snack that really canāt run anymore. Thereās a reason predators are slim, strong and fast, while gankers look like that WoW guy from Southpark.
Oh I play, several alts up the sleeve as well. I have an opinion though, and apparently one that you donāt like so much you need to be childish about it.
ā¦which is why I said:
In any game which supports combat of the sort weāre discussing, someone must play the deer, and someone, the tiger.
The deer chew the grass, the tigers chew the deer. Itās natural.
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Just because you do not agree with high sec mining and its boring for you, that does not mean hobbling their ships to the point of irrelevance. The cost of minerals is low because the consumption is low. Making normal stuff takes way too few minerals, especially Trit. The price is balanced well against consumption.
For you, high sec mining is an ideological issue, it has nothing to do with game balance. High sec mining is the backbone of even industry, like it or not.
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Yes, thats obvious. However, I was talking about fixing a broken game mechanic. Avoiding gankers is not hard to do, but they started killing any and every miner, regardless of ship or character age.
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How do you figure 50k EHP for a hulk? You are not going to get that. With max skills and without going officer I can maybe get to 38k with the new upgrades.
Current barges and exhumers are way overtanked and need a rebalance of around -65% EHP overall to be fair.
Huh. So youāre a mega newbie Got it.
And? They certainly can. And as you say, avoiding them isnāt hard. So the peeps they killed must suck
This is a common fallacy. The reality is that most meaningful mining and industry takes place in nullsec.
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Youāre underestimating the amount of effort eve players put into their play.
They might not just have neutral alts that happen to mine on the same belt, they might as well also have a capsuleer they created for no other purpose then to infiltrate your corporation, itāll be in your fleet, mine with you and be buffed by you ā¦ or itāll be the command ship and buff you instead, doesnāt matter because the eve veterans arenāt poor and the infiltrating capsuleer has been skilling (and extracting) for ages, so if the operator wants the infiltrating toon to look like a miner, heāll just skill up mining skills and buy some mining ships.
When they gank a mining fleet their spy provided a warp-in, they will also blow up their own alts, or eventually they will end up blowing up nothing but their own alts, because the other miners were less AFK then they assumed them to be, and protecting the disguise of the spy is more important then saving a few isk for a porp / orca.
Creating content on the mining grid is just side buisness though, the true aspiration is to infiltrate leadership of the corporation and be given roles that allow them to steal other corp memberās assets, at which point the corp will probably disintegrate and their main corp has one competitor less.
If the infiltrators are doing their job well, then thereās about nothing you can do to protect yourself against getting raided on a the mining grid. Some wanna-be-infiltrators however lose patience and want instant content, their trademark behavior is having forgotten to share the location of the miners they bookmarked with his gank corp account and as he canāt wait, heāll pretend to have connection issues with the mining ship, which result in him āgetting disconnectedā, which results in him dropping fleet, but logout safety keeps him in local for 60 seconds (way longer for weapon timer-ed command ships) while barges and orcas take ages to align. Heāll reconnect, but unless you have added the player added to your contact and selected you want to receive login notifications, you canāt tell whether he really disconnected, reconnected and manually interrupted the warp-out align, or he just manually accelerated the ship and manually dropped fleet ā¦ to join the fleet of the gankers who can then use warp-to-fleet-member on him.
The first thing that comes to mind is having CONCORD come show up quickly in .8+ systems and rep you with very strong reps, or some other way to protect you. At least the gankers would have to commit a lot more to killing you if CONCORD did their job better.