Your numbers for mission earnings must be reflecting your younger account/sp totals, because they are way under what people are earning in HS mission running. Salvage alone earns me 3+ M per mission, my record salvage haul is north of 16M (yay for contaminated fluids!). Add another 2-4 For loot (sometimes far more), bounties paying 4+M (max is around 28+M), and mission completion and bonus (3.5+M), not adding the gained LP (max 8k+).
This doesn’t include the rare missions that drop 24M in rogue drone AIs or 25M in faction tags with no standing loss.
You can earn a suffient income to enjoy the game with the current payouts, but you will have a hard time supporting or trying to get to plexing an Omega account, especially with the costs rising and the newly implemented level 4 restrictions…and isn’t that the main issue of this subject?
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This is part of the non-mission mechanic and has no place in discussion. Its like arguing that ratting in null should have 20% of its income taken away because ratters can salvage. ACtually, the opposite is true and salvaging actually lowers hourly isk income.
The money is there for people that want to put the effort in to extract it by all the tools provided by CCP. People can make sufficient money the way things stand, inflating the payouts so much for the same amount of effort is ridiculous. All that is doing is making easier for bots to PLEX their accounts. Course, even I as a non botter would greatly benefit from such a change, but why make it easier for those not willing to play within the rules?
If you talk for more diverse exploration and mission mechanics and I’m fully supporting you, but not for unreasonable mission payout increases.
If you do the calculations, the values are good.
20/30 m per a mission at 20m a run, is 60-80m an hour, that is my target area for missions.
LP needs to be reworked so i am not including it, its a sloppy mess.
LP is the whole point of missions. It is the main income. And it doesn’t need a rework as a general system, it works fine.
You can’t ignore the largest part of the income then say missions don’t earn enough.
If you look at OP’s suggestion about LP in their first post:
you’ll understand that OP knows nothing about LP shops and how LP system works or why it has to work the way it is.
The last thing highsec needs is another buff.
Last 5 years was spent on buffing null, now is time to HiSec get some love …
have you actually run those missions? the money increase is directly proportional to the difficulty. of course it could be argued that L2 missions dont pay enough but that’s the thing if you want to complete the higher lvl missions you have to both have knowledge of the way the mission plays out and have a ship that can resist and deal damage.
on the contrary L1 missions are entry lvl and thus even a new player with a basic frigate can complete it if it gets proper advice in how to fit them (heck, you can use the destroyer from the career agents and fit it for omnitank with T1 modules and its still works). the difficulty of those missions is compensated by having a low payout, giving players 1.5 million per L1 would disrupt the amount of isk that enters the game because of how easy is the difficulty of those.
i dont know what do you mean by probing a mission, but if that’s related to people probing mission runners well sorry but that’s part of the challenge, running a mission in hostile space shouldnt be without its dangers.
im up for changing distribution missions paying a collateral on each mission is a good idea but the bulk of the botting issue with distribution missions comes from the easy LP production just by moving items around, the money you pay for the collateral doesnt make a dent on the money you get by converting the LP and selling the items.
what could be done is to make it more challenging for the hauler, instead of focusing on just moving huge amounts of crates between stations it should be more about carrying moderate amounts of cargo fast and at locations in space pockets with rats. feels like combat missions but the thing here isnt to kill the rats is to get the store the item and warp out under the fire and perhaps have to fight your way throught due to jamming rats
that’s one of the reasons of why people doesnt run mining missions, the payout is only decent if you do the high lvl ones and it requires a barge/exhumer, and also because of the rats spawning, the difficulty of the rats depend on the security lvl. meanwhile only L1 distribution missions throw you against rats in a few of them, the rest is move this volume of items from point A to point B without risking your ship at all (unless the dropoff is in low sec and even then its possible to complete it unscathed).
making people have to tank their hauler and carry weapons to get the tackle rats off would disrupt the operation of the distribution botters quite a bit, it could even include an increase in difficulty like with mining or combat missions which means that high lvl distribution missions require more protection as the rats that spawn on the site may be consistent with the security lvl which means chance of finding cruisers and up.
the speed of mission rats isnt a real problem, they are made like that so you have to actually track well, use web or rely on drones.
im up for the idea of converting LP into isk (at least to get rid of that leftover LP from different corps), not sure if 3000 isk per LP is fine tho, an L4 can get up to 1000 LP on its minimum with skill, that means extra 3 million per mission just by converting it directly.
not sure what you mean by trade routes for haulers here but thats controlled by players, they are the ones that define which place is a trade hub or not. if you mean hauling goods between NPC stations well the system is balanced as it is, you’re not supposed to make money from that, its just a supplementary option, in addition there’s no structure to dump those goods on planets, you would have to be able to use a Custom Office and that means paying a fee which goes completely out of the point.
Ventures dont need extra mining power, what we need is to nerf the null sec strip mining machine.
Exploration rewards are tied to the market and thus you’re not doing anything here, the issue is about excess of supply due to bots and people seeing the easy money on that activity if exploration was more challenging rather than being just a minesweeper knock off that even an alpha can complete in its higher difficulties then the payouts would be better because not many people would bother doing them
i dont see you giving a reason for why eliminating asteroid belts, and again, the issue with mining is that it has been over exploited by botters and by the null sec powers because its an activity that oesnt require much input by the player, to make mining actually worth something it would mean changing the whole system not just remove belts. that’s as half assed as increasing the delay between combat anomalies.
No watchlists and enormous wardec changes. You should learn to appreciate what you are getting!
Naari I completely agree with you on all counts except one. The NPC’s are just fine. I’ve never had a problem killing them, even with a slowpoke battleship. There are so many various ways to nuke the cruisers it’s rediculous. If you want you can contact me in-game and I can run some missions with you and show you what you need to do to nuke them.
You are right though. The high sec experience is broken. It’s lack-luster and not worth the time spent doing it. The only thing you can do in high sec that even slightly compares to any kind of money you make in null is running incursions.
I firmly believe CCP is looking to force all players into null to experience their big and exciting citadel/capital changes. But running around in null his a horribly boring experience. And the nuances of the corps that live down there, and the mandatory crap you have to do to stay in those corps, breaks the experience for me. Null is NOT fun. It’s a chore, it’s work. High sec is fun in ways because I can log on to EVE and fly spaceships around for a while and nuke things.
The problem with high sec is that it’s horribly unprofitable to live there. You can’t have a hope in hell of being a new - newish player and be able to afford the things that you need to spend money on. I mean a simple cruiser build is what 50 mil now? Do you know how many L2’s you need to run to be able to afford a cruiser? It’s disgusting. And it’s the null guys setting these prices. The rampant inflation of high sec markets and the stagnation of income earned has caused a divide amongst eve players.
Yeah you null guys want the whole game to live in null and have high sec be empty? Might as well just shut the game down. Why not. You hate high sec and everything it stands for. Just shut down EVE. Because I hate to tell you this, but the vast majority of EVE players are high sec guys. And the amount of people I have seen come and go from the lackluster experience in high sec is just disgusting. CCP could really turn this ship around and FAST by simply injecting some creativity into how high sec works and make missioning a lot more exciting and worthit.
But I fear CCP doesn’t even bother to read these forums, so why waste your breath. CCP devs are a bunch of autists and won’t have anything to do with people who are less about living the mental case pirate life and more about just logging on for a couple of hours and blasting some NPC’s.
You’re right. The last thing it needs is another buff. The first thing it needs is MASSIVE nerfs to nullsec income rates.
Edit: The cost of producting capital ships needs to quadrouple. You will need 4 - 5 times the ore and materials to build anything. Make Carriers 100 bil again.
Wrong. The dogmatist in me thinks the players who have it all out in the most dangerous places deserve the highsest income and opportunity.
Most dangerous place my ass. The most dangerous place in EVE is high sec. The most dangerous places are those gates between .4 and .5 systems. You think living in null is the most dangerous when SRP covers everything, or you loose your carrier that I have seen purchased for 500 mil when you are earning 100 mil an hour with it?
You are a joke.
EDIT: You want dangerous I dare you to fly a fully loaded freighter through Niarja. I dare you.
Okay??
There’s a difference between dangerous and being stupid, like you. 
Stupid or not… your argument is invalid. You claim that null is the most dangerous space when actually it’s the easiest place in the game to live.
You should only want to go to null to see and experience the capital stuff. Not to make the best money in the game with the capital stuff. It really throws a wrench into introducing marauders when the cost to buy one for their intended purpose, which is running L4 missions, is nerfed so badly it would take you 5 years to save up the money running missions just to buy and fit one. Meanwhile you can fit a brand new carrier every single day if you are smart the way you rat with it. Don’t hand me that “it’s dangerous down here” crap. I’ve lived in null and I know you are LYING.
Umm no, my argument is great. I said ‘dangerous space’ which is also lowsec and wormholes. I’ve lived in all of them extensively so I pretty much have as valid of an opinion as anyone. Highsec has had enough buffs to anti-pvp so it deserves to have it’s income cut to match.
lol.
Some LP store can net 3k isk/lp in HS.
You make around 15k LP for 10M isk in missions (±) that means, a mission that nets 10M isk in rewards can net 45M isk in LP. Even with only 2k isk/lp it means *4 multiplier over the isk reward. and it’s easy to do 40-50M isk reward per hour in HS, that is 160-200M total value per hour.
Sure if you take your time for “full clear” and other “salvage EVERYTHING” then you are at loss. Eve is not supposed to be “everybody does the same thing and get the same income”. Its mission system is complex, so your CHOICES have an impact - and very visible.