Sry I don’t see the issue. Not a single tear for people who want to circumvent any of those blocking mechanics by “staying a member internally but avoiding the war by leaving”. Leave is only for those who really want to get out of the war because they have no intentions to fight at all and rather quit and look for another corp/group than staying.
What “war groups” do to rotate their members to abuse/dodge penalties is really irrelevant, all that stuff needs to be removed. Every single niche and circumvention strategy hardcore blocked.
None of which are as simple as just getting an invite while one is still in the wardec fleet.
I’d scrap the whole corp swapping thing anyway. Another absurdity it brings is loosing all one’s ranks, etc…and having to keep asking for them to be re-instated.
I’m not fundamentally disagreeing…as I don’t think the corp swaps should happen in the first place. So arguing about what should happen ‘instead’ is futile, as there shouldn’t be an instead.
Anyone in a corp or alliance without a structure should not be able to swap corp to a wardec corp.
Anyone in a corp or alliance with a structure…if they want to join the war then their corp/alliance becomes wardecced.
Because some alliances have safe corps that 90% of the members spend 90% of their time in. And everyone then swaps to a war corp when a war is declared…and then they swap back to the safe corp immediately any battle is over…even before the cooldown period ends.
Because one briefly reverts to the NPC corp…all ranks etc end up being lost. Half of Discord seems to consist of people asking for their ranks back
I often end up having half a dozen new ranks I never had before. Oh..and medals for battles I was never in and no medals for battles where I was…lol.
Exactly. You either stay in your corp and endure the war - best is: fight! -, or you don’t. No cherrypicking, no dodging mechanics. Whoever wants to be in a “safe corp” can do so, thats an NPC corp or a non-war-eligible corp. Pick a side.
Having said that, forget my 14days cooldown in an NPC corp after leaving a war-corp. Make it 30, 60 or 90 days. He explained very well why that seems to be nessessary.
I think you run into a lot of practical problems/collateral damage with longer timers based on leaving a corp at war.
E.g., I had some alts who were still in SLYCE from years ago that I moved into my own corp recently, and like any null group they had a war dec or two going and 30/60/90 days would be annoyingly prohibitive. Obviously not “dodging” a war in any meaningful way by leaving and the characters would be effectively unusable (industrial job alts) while in an NPC corp.
Wanting/needing to leave a corp at war for reasons completely unrelated to its war status is probably too common an activity to restrict that way.
I’d make the restriction based on having joined the corp: Once you’ve joined a corp that’s actively at war, you should be locked in for some minimum period - call it 30 days or until the org is war-free, whatever happens first.
Jump-fatigue-style corp-hopping cooldowns that scale would also be welcome, IMO. Plenty of legitimate reasons to occasionally swap corps, but not so many reasons to swap in and out of corps every weekend, except for metagaming.
That’s a real interesting idea, it’s very strong though so I’d probably limit it to corp only. But the idea of “as long as you don’t go public you’re not really worth being targeted” is actually quite good.
The purpose of a core is to give the group anchoring the structure some stakes in keeping the thing alive in order to get benefits like extra defence timers and other things you mention like tether, to prevent cheap spam of structures that are more of a pain to remove than to place.
I think you can place a structure without core already, it just won’t have defensive timers or features and is nearly as easily removed as it is placed.
So what exactly is it you propose here?
Do you want players to be able to install (valuable) clones in a structure that can be removed in a single bash, without timers?
Seems risky to me.
Or do you want players to be able to spam functional structures with very low stakes like before the introduction of cores?
If the intent is to stop war spam, and if war should only exist to clean up structures, how about:
1B war fee, 90% refunded if any war target’s structure was destroyed.
Personally, I think there’s more to war than just structures, but I guess that is what mutual-war is for.
We often agree, but on that I entirely cannot side with you.
Joining a corp is both a benefit and an obligation. In your example: If you are part of SLYCE and that entity is wardecced, goddamn fight for it. Why trying to dodge the war with your “Alts” to keep doing industry in safety? It’s cheap. It’s not what good corp members should act like. And if you leave anyway to maximize your profits, you should pay a price for that with a waiting period. If that should be 14, 30 or 90 days - open for debate.
Your suggestion on the other hand makes things worse: People declare war on someone with a small unknown noname corp, they have hopes and begin to setup a defense and suddenly that little attacking corp is flooded with combat chars joining it right before the battles. This should be impossible. Corps with active offensive wars should be a 100% blocked from taking in new members as long as the wars are going on, so they should know what they risk when they declare.
Let’s just hope it acts as a deterrent to corps like Black Flag etc who use the war dec mechanism as a Greifing tool. If there’s one thing the game needs less of it’s Greifers
I said what the purpose is: As long as you just want to build a small home for yourself and your little peer group, be a very unlucrative target as anyone trying to raze your station would pay a lot more than he could hope to loot (if you just extract all your stuff to a nearby NPC station).
Sure if your members go offline and never come back, there is some risk. But nothing is without risk. You’d have weaker defenses, yes (tbh, I still would grant them a single timer even without core just at weaker combat capabilties, I am strictly against M-structures having only 1 timer anyway as it broke the neck of so many small and independent groups to remove that second timer…).
And last but not least, I absolutely doubt that myth of “structure spam”. As soon as you anchore more than a single structure with your group, it becomes again profitable to attack you as the loot (services, modules, fuel, random drops) accumulate. And it can be offset by higher fuel costs, adding Starbase Charters based on the security level of the system and/or number of Citadels already in the System (similar to an SCI).
And outside of HS this claim is imply Nullsec whining, totally ridiculous like it always was. If you don’t notice someone anchoring an Upwell Citadel in one of “your” systems that is clearly visible for 24 hours and has an insta-kill timer at the end, you simply don’t deserve to call that system “yours”.
I haven’t been in SLYCE in years, they’re just bad at clearing out inactives. These are alts that were still just sat in SLYCE because I haven’t been using them, either. Now I’m doing a little half-assed industry in high and low sec, but as a player, I’m entirely unaffiliated.
Also, I know you’re a WH guy so: null alliances, on average, simply do not fight highsec wars. Once in a blue moon maybe you’ll see Brave show up to an Absolute Flag structure timer or something, but the prevailing opinion when I was last in SLYCE was that if you get clapped by wardeccers in highsec, you are a dumbass and should use alliance courier services because we’re a null alliance that lives in null and you should stay there where it is safe.
I don’t really think that’s a realistic scenario because unless they were targeting only one war at a time, once the characters moved into the war corp they would be trapped there for 30 days.
I’ll concede that it’s something that “could” be done, but you would basically have to prosecute only one war at a time so everyone could go back to their war-immune AO corps (because that’s what we’re really talking about here) after you’ve “won” the war. Otherwise your miners are now trapped in your war corp by your other wars for 30 days (or however long), and it stops working as a business model.
I view the problem as being less about the fact that you can bring characters into a corporation at war, and more about the fact that they can be valid war targets for an hour, go straight back to being war immune, and then do it all over again next weekend (or sooner, if you have multiple war-deccing corps to shift between).
I don’t really have a problem with this approach, either.
Suddenly the problem goes away. Big wardec entities can’t give their members enough content so they fall apart, and they can’t circumvent by corp hopping because the other wardec corp with active outgoing wars is blocked from recruiting for the time being.
Note that these wardec groups aren’t some mythical highly skilled pvpers, they’re mostly just null alts being bored. So if you take away the power and safety of the blob where they now have to put in more personal effort they suddenly become much less of an issue.
I’ve lost interest in eve… No you can’t has my stuff lol. I just wanted to say thanks for the conversations as they are the most valued thing about this game while I was at work.
