The problem is that you would lose forward skill training progress because you would constantly be retraining your skills. And yes, many good PvP fits rely on max skills to function properly, or at all.
The thing with subcaps is that I can go blow 10 of them in a night, but capitals are more of a rare use like with T3C’s, risk vs reward.
Skill injectors.
I remember clone upgrades. I was against removing of it.
Now i’m happily flying without implants and giving 0 f…s about losing my pod. If i lose my ship i warp to safe and selfdestruct.
For this removal of risk i’m thankful to CCP and those supported this. We need more of such small risks removed! (/s)
For some reason though i don’t feel that since clone upgrades removal we got more PvP in the game. I’m i wrong? Did number of pilots doing this and doing stupid risky things increased?
Let’s start from anecdotal evidences: can anyone say that since this change he started to do PvP more?
Well the lower the risk thus more is willing to give it a try, threat to the progression of skill training could be considered the “ultimate” risk in this game, you can lose ISK, you can lose ships, implants, friends, whatever. However when you can lose progress in skillpoints, then you can bet your arse that it will fend off quite a few players, why would newbies risk pvping when it would reset their progress?
So yeah, now that you dont have to run back and forth to your clonebay you can just jump into your next ship and undock at the speed of light guns blazing.
what you propose is basically skill loss like we have for T3C .
Suggestions like these are all fun and games, until you realize theres a thing called injectors and endless amounts of isk, not to mention some pretty deep real life pockets.
Trust me, if people have isk for many supers, they most certaintly have isk for all the injectors in the world! This suggestion will do nothing but cause a bigger gap between rich and poor. None of the big rich entities will be hurt by this at all, its just a small obstacle, while smaller entities will effectively be steamrolled into non exsistant SP for the big stuff.
Exactly. And for some reason these T3C are used for big fleet compositions in null-sec and wormholes. Many players use T3Cs for PvP fully knowing that they will lose SP if they lose a ship.
Since skill injectors losing SP is losing ISK. Not any different.
so it’s just adding a small price tag to each cap. The price tag being the same and after taking insurance into account, it’s an important increase in dread/rorqu price, small increase for carrier and fax, little increase for super, and negligible increase for titans.
i think they removed it because certain people were killing pods over and over 100s of times
and it was in jita and billions of sp were destroyed this way
dark times hehe
yeah…more risk aversion is totally what we need…
I know why the removed, some ships including fit would cost more than an empty clone upgrade, so it wouldn’t make any sense to undock in the first place.
Well, overall I don’t think that this would make things better.
It would further increase gap between rich and poor. Mechanism to decrease capital ship proliferation must work differently, because this only increases price tag. And price is not that much a factor for the rich. They would just inject/SRP that.
And further to sub capital ships. Would you punish people flying logistic frigates for flying logi? That once they die, they loose skill points?
We are the first primaries and we die. So I can put in my training queue only endlessly repeating logi frigs? Or just skill inject? No, thank you.
What exactly would I loose? If I loose racial frig V then I do not meet requirements to fly T2 hull. That would be madness. If I don’t have logistic frigate V then what would I loose? Loosing logistic frigate V would be again madness.
These are just ideas running through my head when I read the post and I don’t mean it as an offense. You present valid points. Proliferation of capital ships is problem.
Cheers,
BB
SP loss for pods was scrapped because it measurably made people more risk averse. And that was with upgradeable clone states that could prevent it. The suggestion that ship loss should cause sp loss across the board would be the same thing but even worse, since there would be no way to avoid it.
What you would see is even more blue-balling as people would be even more reluctant to undock unless they where guaranteed a win. You would see even harder capital and supercapital overkill, because that’s the best way to ensure you crush your opponent with as few losses as possible.
And in the very rare occasion that you MIGHT get a cap on cap battle. You would setup a scenario where the winning group would have unstoppable momentum. Since now they are left with a functional cap/supercap fleet, and no matter how large the losers stockpile, they are still locked out of them without dropping 10s of billions on injectors.
A few points of order, I see a lot of people talking about SP on ship loss… which is not what the OP said; POD loss (based on whatever ship you were flying though).
If you can extract your pod, even self destruct your pod (easy to conceive that a self destruct would be a “graceful shutdown”, kind of like a clean shutdown on a server vs yanking the power), you wouldn’t lose any SP.
I still feel that the mere threat of a dreadbomb would prevent caps from dropping on everything. They’d be easy enough to train back up again, and they’d have a real incentive to start nuking caps.
As for the arguments about injectors… yes, but remember even the Goons have a limited war chest. It’s an obscenely high limit… but it is a limit. Re-injecting titan pilots would drain that chest quickly, if for no other reason that injector prices would utterly skyrocket after a titan battle.
And again… if you look at it, most of your subcaps really wouldn’t get punished all that hard. You wouldn’t be going into FW and whelping T1 frigates all night, so I can see why most FW people would be against this.
The more skill-intensive your ■■■■ is, the more you get punished for losing it. But, conversely, the more skill-intensive your ■■■■ is, the better your chance of winning, pilot skill being equal.
Me thinks that no matter how good the idea is …
… CCP won’t care, because they think it’s fine.
If we take the amount of care they had for preventing this …
… and extrapolate that into the future …
… then we can see a graph with a flat line at the base level.
Zero.
Bonus graph for illustration:
X ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zero
Another capship hater I see.
If we need to stop ‘capital proliferation’ (I fly all day every day in nullsec, lowsec, and wormholes, and I never see one), what about the menace of frigate proliferation? Can we do something about that?
What we really should be dealing with is the profiterolation of capsuleers!
not exactly…
Are there too many frigates or cruisers, too often?
Go away and never come back. Might as well ask for Learning Skills to come back.