How can we best educate new players?

[Zaera_Keena]

@Bob_Mo_rane

no one loves to be ganked

Rubbish, getting ganked got me hooked on EVE. It gets better every time.

[Bob_Mo_rane]

@Zaera_Keena

getting ganked got me hooked on EVE

Funny that. What got me hooked is the sanbox and the original sci-fi theme but, hey, to each their own.

[Lucas_Kell]

@Bob_Mo_rane

Yeah, it must sucks to love a game but despise its developers. Looks like you don’t want to make the choice to quit - you’re hooked despite yourself - and need a good reason to ( besides the ones that make you despise PA ) so you use ganking as a black sheep because no one loves to be ganked, even though you do understand it’s part of the game.

Not quite “hooked”, more that I’ve been here pretty much forever and it’d be a shame to leave rather than be here until the end.

Whether you accept it or not ganking does have a negative impact on player retention. I get that its your easy carebear gameplay and so you don’t actually want it balanced but the failure to do anything about ganking while a tiny group of plyers causes increasingly negative views of the game is a fundamental flaw in CCPs decision making process.

@Bob_Mo_rane

It’s obviously troubling you. Make the first step into your well-being and uninstall for good.

It’s always funny when you hand gankers any hook and they immediately pounce on it. How about my well being remains my issue, you guys clearly have far bigger issues to deal with.

[Zaera_Keena]

@Lucas_Kell

ganking does have a negative impact on player retention

Gaking them early is doing them a favour, saving them money as this is a PVP game. Final Fantasy 14 is thataway-------------------------->

[Githany_Red]

I find solo new players seem to suffer the most, we train our new player to get used to losing ships and when we lose ships we talk people out of there anguish

[Lucas_Kell]

Being a “PvP game” does not mean that combat PvP is always there. It just means that every aspect of the game is competitive or cooperative in some way.

Amusingly ganking isn’t even really a combat PvP playstyle, it’s pretty much PvE since you’re only actually racing the concord mechanics.

[Zaera_Keena]

@Githany_Red

I find solo new players seem to suffer the most

Had the opposite effect, made me train for REVENGE.

[Bob_Mo_rane]

@Lucas_Kell

Not quite “hooked”, more that I’ve been here pretty much forever and it’d be a shame to leave rather than be here until the end.

I can easily understand that.

@Lucas_Kell

Whether you accept it or not ganking does have a negative impact on player retention.

I cannot accept or deny it: not enough empirical evidence and CCP keeps data like gold so good luck on that argument.

@Lucas_Kell

I get that its your easy carebear gameplay and so you don’t actually want it balanced

?? I haven’t even ganked anyone - yet - how is it my “carebear gameplay” ??

@Lucas_Kell

but the failure to do anything about ganking while a tiny group of plyers causes increasingly negative views of the game is a fundamental flaw in CCPs decision making process.

I think the problem isn’t with ganking but your percetion of it and how it affects players.
I got ganked a couple days ago: I didn’t go cry to mommy nor did I insult the ganker. How is that so hard to do?

@Lucas_Kell

It’s always funny when you hand gankers any hook and they immediately pounce on it

WOW!! You’re calling me a ganker?? I’m honored!
Hear that @Aiko_Danuja ? Now I’m just like you, the scourge of New Eden and I haven’t even shot down one ship! Man I’m good!!

@Lucas_Kell

How about my well being remains my issue, you guys clearly have far bigger issues to deal with.

Yep… you do hate gankers and ganking… You’re going to need professional help when it’s all said and done.

It was nice to share posts with you but at this time I do not think it is beneficial for me to keep reading your posts.
Do take care and get that gank-phobia taken care of, please.
o7

[Zaera_Keena]

@Bob_Mo_rane

the scourge of New Eden

More like the Robin Hoods of New Eden, take from the rich and give to the poor (ourselves).

[Odin_Stuntman]

Educating players is a priority if the rest of us don’t want New Eden dumbed down too much. (Not criticising, a product has to sell).

I have a top idea that is easy to implement.

‘Corp Flight Briefings’
A small extension to the old captain’s quarters, from where you use a panel to enter the ‘corp briefing room’ (by choosing a seat from a diagram, so your character is on rails the whole time he’s in the briefing room.) The only places characters can be is in a seat, or at the podium. Everyone can make gestures. The podium is a virtual screen (or 3D holo) with some basic pre-made stuff (ask Eve University) but it ALSO has the option to run a .ppt from outside the game.

Whaddya think?

[Githany_Red]

@Bob_Mo_rane

WOW!! You’re calling me a ganker?? I’m honored!
Hear that @Aiko_Danuja ? Now I’m just like you, the scourge of New Eden and

She properly cant answer today, being a real princess she probably has other duties today😊

[Ramona_McCandless]

I think youve just found out, but anyone who disagrees with Scott there is a Ganker, regardless of whether we actually gank or not. The idea that someone who gankers target could be ok with them doing so is something that undermines the foundations of his argument.

[Zaera_Keena]

@Githany_Red

being a real princess she probably has other duties today

Most likely busy ganking.

[Bob_Mo_rane]

@Lucas_Kell

The intention of most ganking now is to wind up players to the point that they get irate so the “salt mining” gankers can laugh about it and post it on their little blog

So what IF it is? Is your ego that big that you can’t acknowledge when someone played well?
When I got ganked in my free Venture I didn’t start to hate on the ganker cause he got one up on me, wtf, that was MY problem to make sure I was safe!

@Lucas_Kell

This isn’t how it always was. Ganking in the early days was only really done for profit or against specific strategic targets

Because you had the inside scoop on all the gankers and their intent… sounds plausible, lol.

@Lucas_Kell

It’s only been since 2012 or so that it became a sport to harass people and has increasingly shifted that way since

It is kind of a sport and harassment only works when the one being harassed doesn’t take measure to counter it.
Those who refuse to be victims don’t complain about harassment, they do something about it.

@Lucas_Kell

It’s easy to say “i didn’t get mad while I was ganked” but then you’re not the only type of person playing the game

I can only go by my experiences, unlike you who speak for ALL players. It’s just like generalities: they’re always false.

@Lucas_Kell

Kids play this game, people with metal health issues play this game, there’s all sorts

It’s no one’s fault they’re kids or handicapped, certainly no CCP’s fault or the gankers’. When they choose to play a game the responsibility of their shortcoming doesn’t fall on players or devs, it falls on whoever is supposed to watch them ( the kids ) or the person who accompanies the handicapped player. Throwing the responsibility on anyone else is a cop-out to make the argument stick.

@Lucas_Kell

Gankers go through enough players that they will inevitably find the ones that react badly

Bad behavior isn’t acceptable, period.

@Lucas_Kell

I think it’s a crappy playstyle that’s bad for the game

Every time someone has a bad argument they add " for the good of the game - the good of the players - the good of the children"… You don’t know what’s good for the game so stop pretending you do.

@Lucas_Kell

and that the people who do it do so to target players, not characters in the game

Every character in the game is a player and a person so it’s easy to conflate on that point.

@Lucas_Kell

Bear in mind, I’m not the one that runs a blog posting up all the times I’ve managed to make another person irate on the internet

It’s a blog! And incidentally it’s funny as phuk! You’re saying gankers can’t have blogs now? What else can’t they have, besides the satisfaction of a tactic well played?

@Lucas_Kell

Most gankers are alts of - or are directly connected to - players in null groups, the richest players in the game

You know “most gankers”… I see.

@Lucas_Kell

That’s why the vast majority of ganking is done with no prospect of profit

You’re overthinking all that.
EVE is a PvP game, it means players will attack you, for whatever reason you can imagine it doesn’t matter, and it means YOU have to be alert and know your ship will explode at some point.
No need to make a drama about it. It’s a game.

[Bob_Mo_rane]

@Lucas_Kell

CCP stated at the fanfest just gone that it does.

Statements are a dime a dozen. No data: it didn’t happen.

[Bob_Mo_rane]

@Ramona_McCandless

The idea that someone who gankers target could be ok with them doing so is something that undermines the foundations of his argument

The foundations of his argument is built on sand. It has no merit. He wants to assign malevolent intentions where they don’t fit. I mean wtf, the game is PvP and sandbox, who cares why someone does anything? Best care how they do it so you can avoid it next time and also use it for your own instead of having a heartbreak for a pixelated ship.

[Zaera_Keena]

@Bob_Mo_rane

his argument is built on sand

which makes sense as

@Bob_Mo_rane

the game is PvP and sandbox

[Zaera_Keena]

@Lucas_Kell

Ganking takes practically no effort.

Says he who knows nothing about ganking

[Io_Koval]

@Zaera_Keena

Says he who knows nothing about ganking

He knows nothing about ganking, but admitted to griefing newbs for salt in the Megathread.

This is a factual statement devoid of judgement.

[Bob_Mo_rane]

@Lucas_Kell

but in what way is it playing well?

Let me guess, now you’re going to say that ganking is easy…

@Lucas_Kell

Ganking takes practically no effort. People who shoot rocks with lasers all day put in more effort than gankers do

That’s what I thought. It’s so easy that the miners can only cry about it instead of getting payback.

@Lucas_Kell

You don’t need the “inside scoop” it was pretty widely disussed

Discussed by gankers who state that their only goal is gank players to collect tears… I don’t think so. They might say it only because it’s funny, and it is when the one getting ganked acts like a 5yo.

@Lucas_Kell

Yes, it’s a sport where the goal is to harass people until they react negatively

Bad behavior isn’t dependent on someone’s actions or words unless it’s Life or Death. Gankers only the play the game as it’s supposed to be played. Some players shoot at rocks, other players like to shoot at ships, it’s a choice that the sandbox gives. It’s not a conspiracy to make players cry.

@Lucas_Kell

You say they’re always false yet you offer no reason for me to accept that

If you cannot even acknowledge that generalities are always false then we’re both wasting our time in this theead.

@Lucas_Kell

your narrative

There is: Narrative.
That tells me you are not willing to even look at the other side. Your brain is stuck on the same record skipping on “gankers griefing” over and over until you yourself believe it.
Well, if it pleases you to be frustrated with the REALITY of what EVE is who am I to change that.

@Lucas_Kell

It’s the gankers fault if they are deliberately targeting the player and not the character though

So before each gank the gankers needs to send a private message with the disclaimer: " Dude, I’m only attacking your game character, cool?"

@Lucas_Kell

with the intent of winding the player u

Who cares what they intent if you don’t let it bother you?
Right now some ganker is reading your posts and having the time of his life… because I know I am.

@Lucas_Kell

shill alts like you

Are you getting mad? Don’t be mad, I’m not your enemy, I’m just posting what I feel and think… Unless that too is griefing in your book?

@Lucas_Kell

Gankers engage in bad behaviour all the time, deliberately harassing their targets, and CCP allow it

Do you take pills for paranoia? I’m not downing on people who need them but you may need them as well. You’re full of conspiracy theories.

@Lucas_Kell

Hell, try coming on the forum and disagreeing with gankers and you’ll get bombarded with personal attacks

So far It’s YOU I see lobbing personal attacks. Hell, you’re attacking me calling me a “shill alt” just because I disagree with you so stop it with the victim act.

@Lucas_Kell

So do CCP, hence their statements that they intend to reduce ganking and make highsec PvP more equitable

“Equitable” can be understood in many ways. It doesn’t mean you’ll like the results and again, statements are a dime a dozen.

@Lucas_Kell

Normal people don’t find harassment funny though

So a blog is harassment ? WOW. Good thing you’re not in charge of anything, It’d be a tyranny within 2 months.

@Lucas_Kell

It is a game, and thus griefing actual players should be banned just like in most other games

I agree, except that ganking is not griefing.