How CCP could keep new players longer

[Gix_Firebrand]

Funny how you can’t admit that peeps were lying about that long before that

But you already know that.

I love how you dodge all the rest

[Gix_Firebrand]

But not hordes of alpha gankers repeatedly being biomassed

LOL “misjudging scale”.

It’s so cute when you try to semantic your way out of things

[Gix_Firebrand]

Of course they did and you know it son

Of course it’s relevant because CCP killed another playstyle for newbros because of faulty intel people pushed, much like yourself.

Also did you find it on the box or

[Gix_Firebrand]

I love when you try this tactic too.

It makes me cackle

And they did, despite you saying otherwise.

Newbros can’t even try out ganking without going Omega.

It’s ok bro. I get you’re still cycling down from the self-own earlier.

It’ll be ok

[Gix_Firebrand]

Except it isn’t.

You yourself already admitted ganking is easy to avoid

[Gix_Firebrand]

It does not tho, because you can simply educate them on what you do, ergo solving the problem

Ganking can’t both be OP and absolutely no problem at the same time Rroff

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Lucas_Kell

Ganking is a bad mechanic that should be purged

While have never ganked and hate when it happens to me, I do think that gamking is part of what makes this game absolutely amazing. Otherwise, everyone would be in AFK trillion isk freighters all the time.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

Sure it can, because the part you keep leaving out is that it’s not a problem for veterans, but it is a problem for new players, prospective players and new player retention.

Easily solved by education

Because whether you admit it or not, that’s what the vets are using to counter it

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Lucas_Kell

Based on what?

There is no “endgame” ship fit. Other players must constantly be a consideration, and the sheer lawlessness of it makes the game attractive to the niche of players that CCP advertizes to.

@Lucas_Kell

How and why? Freighters would still have capacity limits and players would still need to generate that level of wealth to be able to sit around with it.

With basically no risk to transport, all of the market hubs’ prices would equalize. Station trading and shipping profitability would soar. People would pack their freighters full of things like deadspace modules, valuable commodities, or massive amounts of low-volume cargo like Nanite Repair Paste. Let’s play a game of “how much Nanite Repair Paste in ISK at 20,000 ISK each can you fit into a triple ORE Cargo Expanded Charon”

I courteously offer you the first move in this game.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

Guess I’m not getting my economics minor then…

I must be really bad at what I have been doing for the last year and a half.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Lucas_Kell

Did you think they just spawn in Jita?

No, they get transported there in ships that are either unattractive to gankers, unassuming to scan, or slipperier than Catalysts.

@Lucas_Kell

Why does this matter? If you want to produce that much Nanite Repair Paste then transport it to a hub, you can do so, that doesn’t mean it will sell

It is an example. You would of course vary your freight. I am just saying that if you did decide to transport a Charon with 3x ORE Expanded Cargoholds AFK through highsec between Jita and Amarr filled to the brim with Nanite Repair Paste, you would pretty much certainly get ganked. Like 1-10⁻⁶ probability.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

You say “easily” but as of yet that’s not been accomplished. The reality is that you can’t educated players if they leave the game. You can’t solve poor retention by saying “if people stay and learn they’ll be easier to retain”.

Huh. It’s almost like we should invent something that can store almost all the knowledge of mankind. Then make an interface that can parse that knowledge and find specific things.

Oh wait.

@Lucas_Kell

This is not true. There’s already no real risk to transport.

Oh. So ganking isn’t a problem then. Awesome

@Nujenif_Talvanen

It is an example.

You’re trying to argue logic with him. You’ve already won because you’re correct.

However he’ll never admit that. His actual goal is to get ganking removed so he can simply AFK transport things. He doesn’t care about the nubs or the game, just himself

[Brun_Warbear]

@Gix_Firebrand

But not hordes of alpha gankers repeatedly being biomassed

No they weren’t being biomassed. It’s pointless. Alpha gankers use the free 1m SP from refer a friend. When the alt is burned, the account is burned. You’d just jettison the account and start a new one. Nobody’s voluntarily adding an extra month to train their disposable alt when it’s so easily avoided.

[Brun_Warbear]

@Nujenif_Talvanen

With basically no risk to transport

There is basically no risk to transport. At least not on a level that impacts the market. There’s only individual loss which from a market perspective is irrelevant.

Ganking, even at its absolute height, has never added a significant net cost to transport. People still autopiloted billions in a single trip and they still do it now. Ganking has never been so prolific as to prevent that. Worst case scenario some players just used to avoid Niarja but now they don’t even have to do that. They don’t care how long the journey takes they’re asleep when it happens.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Lucas_Kell

I have zero interest in engaging in hauling and will never have any interest in it. But hey, you keep making up your stories if it helps you get by. For the record though, most of the places I stock goods have no highsec only routes to them.

Sure bro. Sure

@Brun_Warbear

There is basically no risk to transport. At least not on a level that impacts the market. There’s only individual loss which from a market perspective is irrelevant.

Ah. Well that solves that mystery

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

I do see your point, and it is valid. My point with the AFK freighters is that a lot more people would run stupid expensive freighters, and that would break the economy. The threat of ganking puts limits on the population-wide maximum transfer rate, in terms of isk jumps per time, which is a dumb unit.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Brun_Warbear

People still autopiloted billions in a single trip and they still do it now. Ganking has never been so prolific as to prevent that.

This is a good point.

[Xeux]

Gankers didn’t cause the deaths of the minor trade hubs. CCP did that when they imposed their onerous tax policies.

If I believed the nullsecer CSMs to be cleverer than they are, I would say it was all a ploy to force more trade into the TTT keepstar in Perimeter.

Nobody is going to start hauling gazillions of isk in goods to Hek even if ganking were to be eliminated.

[Io_Koval]

@Nujenif_Talvanen

With basically no risk to transport, all of the market hubs’ prices would equalize.

This has already happened, and if it hasn’t it’s because demand dried up at the non-Jita hub (because it was cannibalized by the Jita hub due to its market hub projection power).

You used to be able to wardec logistics corporations. Hauling was dangerous. Even dudes in NPC Corporations could legally get friendly fired upon. What does dangerous hauling mean? The opposite of today:

• Hauling as a profession becomes more valuable. I mean the highly attentive, scout + webber (or “engages the social sandbox by paying off major gankers / wardeccers”) get to be even more rewarded (comparatively) for their gameplay.
  • People are less likely to think “the I haul is free” which is currently devaluing the cost of hauling.
• “Market Projection” of a particular hub decreases: The power projection of a hub is based on how likely it is able to successfully ship goods from the hub to a certain distance, and how confidently people think “the I haul is free”. As that safe distance decreases and mentality disappears due to dangerous hauling:
  • Local Industrialists are more important: They can compete in lower volume but higher margin areas, because arbitrage via hauling from a hub is riskier. This creates opportunities for newbies who tend to produce at lower volumes.
  • Local Mining is more important: When your local industrialist wants ore, they also don’t want to ship compressed ore along the dangerous route. This creates opportunities for newbies to help supply smaller demands.
  • Newbie Marketers / small-scale haulers are better rewarded. As there are now small-volume arbitrage opportunities, they would finance the risky hauls from low-volume cheap hubs to expensive secondary locations and play market-maker. Instead of today where people basically play market-maker in very few locations.
• Traditional hauling methods in WH, low, & null sec like scouting become more important. Basically, newbies learning in high sec get to learn the skills that are immediately useful in all other areas of the game.

Basically, because hauling is so safe, your min/maxing nullseccer can produce in nullsec, jump-freight (fuelled by “the ice I mine is free”), haul to Jita, and out-compete everyone else because all the other players – newbies included – when looking to buy are thinking “can I just buy at Jita and haul myself” and at worst if not hauling themselves “can I buy to Jita and cheaply ship it via [hauling service] to myself”. This means the players already ahead keep staying ahead and there’s no niche opportunities that newbies can fill and earn a smaller-volume but higher-rate that at-scale large producers would ignore because they rely on sheer volume and it would be too tedious and dangerous to capture these numerous long-tail-by-volume markets.

[Max_Deveron]

yes that is exactly what im talking about, and she did saying boring and soul crushing…so unless she says that is not what she was talking about then I am going to assume that it was.