I see the lunatics are back, trying to sell a new lie.
Providing some “safe” PvE content does not completely remove PvP from EVE.
Unlike the usual EVE “ultra-reactionary” tropes, “any protected PvE would destroy all PvP” is a “stupid person’s argument”. It’s so obviously wrong that only a grunting neanderthal would ever imagine they could get away with it /lol.
For the neanderthals, here’s a sufficient rebuttal: there are (or at least were" systems in EVE where bittervets can’t initiate PvP with new players - and yet EVE hasn’t imploded.
For any reader confused by this seemingly bizarre claim:
In EVE’s bittervet cryptolanguage, what every other gamer on the planet calls “PvE” is called “PvP”.
EVE has “mining PvP”, “market PvP”, “bittervet Mission PvP” (NB: new players don’t get to call missions PvP /lol), “sitting in a station watching your ship rotate PvP”, etc.
Here’s a simple translation aid. When in doubt:
Any gaming word that would make vets feel better about themselves is shifted one step in the positive (“ego-buffing”) direction. Hence “PvE” becomes “PvP”.
Any gaming word that highlights bad behavior is shifted one step in the “less negative” direction, hence “griefing” becomes “ganking”, and (somewhat irrationally) “ganking” becomes “PvP”.
Note the the ambiguity is stable because it’s so useful. For example there are three parallel definitions of “PvP”: the two EVE ones highlighted above and the one all other gamers use. It’s handy because, due to the way logic works, by using that kind of linguistic “flexibility” you can appear to prove night is day (i.e. you can generate correct-sounding contradictions).
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Note: the quote comes unmodified from this thread, but I removed the name of the poster.
Well the answer to that is pretty easy…
CCP has to take control over the market,by setting max/min prices for every piece on it and by simply deleting market manipulations like those RIDICULOUS “buy offers” of 0.01 for ore f.e.
ANY offers below or above the set max/min are simply deleted and poof the market pvp vanished into the trashbin of eve where it belongs…
Ahh yes everyone is a lunatic and a liar but you. Yet oddly enough you never take on a serious argument head on.
Did anyone says this?
Maybe you can rephrase this in something that actually approximates English?
Yes, you are partially correct. EVE is a competitive game. Players compete against each other for resources. Such competition, since it is player against player, renders it PvP in a broad sense.
You want to stick with the very narrow definition of PvP where it is strictly defined as one player shooting another player. This is fine, but since most of use go with broader definition it results in you and the rest of use “talking past one another”. And then you insist everyone else is crazy and insane and psychopaths. In reality the only asshole here is you. Yes you are a blinkered, dim witted asshole that everyone else thinks is a slow witted child who is allowed to tag along with the rest so you don’t feel bad.
Missions are not really PvP. I already noted this, but then again you are rather slow and dim witted. You and I could do exactly the same mission from the exact same agent. Thus missions is an example that is largely not PvP in a broad definition of the game.
Look everyone the two dim witted failures at life are bonding. Next thing you know they’ll actually come out of their basements and engage each other in real life. Maybe even see sun light for the first time…if their mom’s let them that is (and give them the money to buy each other a cup of coffee).
Partially right, we will contest any changes that are to the detriment of the game; your batshit 180 degree turnaround being one of them.
On the other hand most of us will happily embrace changes that add value to the game, something you are incapable of understanding.
On a side note if you’re going to create a character and claim not to be Balos, you could be a bit more imaginative with the character creation, instead of using pretty much the exact same character sans some hair; also your script is predictable as hell.
Your really over simplifying the learn to have fun losing ships. The main issues with new players having no fun are
They don’t work for it. Everything is handed to them if they want it. So they get bored and leave.
The game is unfair. They thought it was their vexor vs a vigil all of a sudden 15 guys warp in. 16 v 1 No fair. Get enough of that and large groups kicking down your sand castle and they are out due to systemic 1 step forward 6 steps back. So the game is to hard to learn on your own without a kiddie pool and HS ain’t a kiddie pool.
Too much to learn. They have to really research to find all the game play elements and what things create what loot in order to build said thing ad nauseam
Possible solutions.
New players are forced into Faction Warfare and special Faction Warfare Narrative Missions with new Story elements pushing the Eve Universe Story Line forward. After a certain conscription period they would be released to normal corps if they desired. New Faction Content Required, Possibly new WarFront Mechanics to change sec lvls based on active fleets in systems, AI NPC Faction Fleets Guarding Objectives? Free Faction Reships or for so much LP(SRP for NPC Faction Corps all automated)Possibly have players fly with the AI fleet thus if they can’t find enough ppl to fleet with they can tag along with the AI fleet.
Kiddie Pool for New Players Release a few new Star clusters where Gates are finally coming online after 100’s of years traveling to these outer rim clusters. the Empires are hoarding any possible archeological finds to themselves and only trust rookie capsuleers with the clearance since they have no clue what’s going on(Ignorance is useful). Could put new Faction Warfare stuff in these regions.
There is a lot to learn in the game and it can be overwhelming to figure out all the resources and where they all come from and what you need in order to get it all done. The choices are paralyzing because the scope is so large. So instead of letting everyone build everything. Why not let people specialize in only a few things to make and to make it their own custom version so they can corner a market on a modded piece of equipment. With Triglavian mutaplasmids allowing gambling of stats with a swing range on 80% or more… Why not the slow march of progress on stats then. Work on research missions, odd jobs for agents, scavenger hunt for old bpo’s or faction versions of equipment for your research breakthroughs. Then you get a custom BPO(I would get rid of bpo’s at this point and make a research page equivalent of the ship tree to get rid of all those useless items and reduce server lag). Making your own version of an item with your name or corps name on it would make players more vested and once they had regular customers more apt to stick around in the community they are now apart of.
A lot of emergent gameplay on the last point there. Food for thought.
Totally disagree unless I ran a web service selling ads then I’d be all on board for my pennies a click.
Eve would be better served with a TV show or Movie. Tell a good story and capture peoples imaginations first. I mentioned a lot of this in posts on the old forums and Hilmar mentioned something along those lines a few months back on his twitter so hopefully something is happening there.
The “Kiddie Pool” concept has been brought up before. It’s always shot down by the “hurr durr HTFU” crowd. Translation: I need victims.
Were it up to me I would set up an area where the gates won’t respond to people with low security status and attempts to target another player’s ship simply gets a “you can’t do that here” dialog. Fill that space with “learning missions” for the noobs.
I know what Church of HTFU will say: “There’s already rules against messing with noobs, you carebear!”
How many noobs simply shrug once harrassed and go away, never to return, and NEVER report anything? Who would know about that? Nobody. Except the miscreant who drove them off, whose hope is to get some convo of “tears” to bandy about as a trophy.
In the end, these “we has rules so problem solved” approach does not work when you have people whose entire game is to mess with the game and other people in it. So yes, we need gates that don’t respond to criminals and arbitrary “black boxed” weapons control systems. Just for the new players so they can at least learn how to steer their noobships before becoming somebody’s satisfaction.
Perhaps! I just find that maybe the discussion would be more productive if we spoke in terms of things that are proven or that data can support.
I don’t think eve is for everyone. I don’t want eve to appeal for everyone. I want CCP to market to the kind of player that is going to play eve. I’m not saying that the game is perfect or that CCP doesn’t need to make changes, but CCP trying to lure in as many players as they can by appealing to casual players is the wrong approach. When they are eventually faced with negative player interaction, they don’t know how to handle it.
Ah you see. You wan to game it on whether it’s proven, or can be proven, or not. That is the problem here.
We can argue the same over whether or not we should lock our door when we are away. Why would you lock your door? Do you have evidence that your neighbors are going to rob you? Are they different? Maybe you are a racist! Why, you don’t want to be racist, do youuuuuu?
Or perhaps just paranoid? Are you schizo then? Shall we call the men in the white coats to take you away?
But… but… unlawful entry is … unlawful! It’s… against the law!
“Your honor I think my client should only get probation because he found the door unlocked and therefore did not ACTUALLY break into the home…”.
See where that goes? I have seen enough lawyerteering and lawfaring to smell this sort of thing. And it stinks every time.
We lock our damned doors just in case that one miscreant that we don’t know about comes along. We should lock out criminals and weapons systems in noob starter zones just in case. It’s that easy when we apply non-lawyereze logic to it.
Just had a twelve year vet of the game steal the site out from under me. Won’t talk in local, rejects private convoes and no mail. Gonna have to rewatch the how to make friends tutorial
I don’t see how this relates to me locking my door or not. Is it best that CCP make changes to a sandbox game just to be safe from players getting “griefed” out of the game without saying anything, or is it best that CCP work to collect data and evaluate shortcomings?
Yes I lock my door when I leave, but that’s because there’s statistics that show how many homes in my area are broken into. Locks only keep honest people out. If a thief wants into your home they will find a way.
The point I’m making is that Eve Online is special not because it’s based in space, but because of the deep rooted history of players interacting with each other in ways which are impossible or discouraged in other games. There’s a lot more to why a player would want to play Eve Online, but you cannot deny the history and reputation of this game. In this game there are lions and lambs. Yes this is very much a competitive game in many aspects, but just because you’re a lamb doesn’t mean you’re helpless.
