Then who are you? You seem to be non-violent, progressive, even. But then, back to conservative values of ‘eve past.’
Sure, I could look up your history, but who cares. Things change, things are always changing, us included, and past performance is not a reliable indicator of the future, well, sans Bayes’ Theorem, anyway. I can sorta, kinda, say what you will do, if I know your history, but it’s not a guarantee, and why bother, when I can just ask?
Who, then, are you, today?
Me?
I’m primarily a hisec PvE player, one of the demographic that Balos, or whatever he’s calling himself this week, claims to represent.
A hisec without “traditional PvP”, which is the agenda that he’s pushing, completely devalues my gameplay in terms of my own actions reducing the chances of that facet of PvP happening to me. I don’t need CCP to prevent me from losing stuff, I’m more than capable of achieving that state by my own efforts.
To me, that facet of PvP is the spicy sauce of hisec, it’s what makes my gameplay interesting, both in the potential loss and opportunity that it provides.
The chaos that surrounds me means that if I don’t want to explode I have to play smart, it also provides opportunity for profit and interaction with other players.
I see. Sort of.
If there were not ‘traditional pvp,’ and more safety in hisec, so you would not have to be so smart, if that were the case…
What would the negative impact, to you, be?
It would no longer be a challenge. I don’t like or play games that don’t present a challenge.
Of course I could move to a WH, lowsec or nullsec to chase that challenge, and indeed I have done so in the past, but given the amount of free time I have available to play those aren’t viable options for me, continuing my particular style of play there is simply not sustainable due to RL commitments; hisec currently suits my desire for a challenge (of sorts), available time and current playstyle.
A pure motive?
‘You value your ignorance of what is to come?!’
lol. Yeah, we do.
The other side of the coin. Fine. So be it. I like you, Jonah.
“Also what would need to change in eve to get back the old players?”
Allow alpha clones to use all skills trained with no restrictions.
Meta shake-up similar suggestions.
Maybe that’s because you’re the exception and there are too few exceptions to fund the ccp with enough money to survive …
Thank you all. this will be enugh for this time. I will summary almost 400 posts in this tread and ( i might make a new post if i need to look sor something more specific.
The main idea after this is that i will start composing a mail to Ccp with ideas, and then its on their hands.
(This has been successfull before from my side so im positive)
Thank you all for participating.
Now if something is unsaid,take it to eve battlefield ( but tell me and ill record.
/Orochimaru Angel
Orochimaru
If you’re ready to summarize, I’d like to add a “meta-comment” on this discussion:
New players are poorly represented in discussions like this. It’s like a reverse “Dunning-Kruger Effect”
– https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect –
Three obvious factors:
I gave you a suggestion earlier for addressing some of this. I’m not confident it would work well enough though. I’m not even sure it’s possible to deal with (3) - even with active moderation from CCP or ISD.
It is possible for someone like you to highlight the severe issues with gathering data and suggestions about beginner behavior though.
This view is very simple. All veterans still here and playing were newbies at some point in the past and gone through the great filter. So we form EvE as we like it! A virtual universe existing and working fine for 15 years.
We know how to pass the filter, what mindset and capabilities you have to bring, and we try to educate people asking questions.
But expect opposition to suggestion of people who don’t have a clue, and therefore propose to remove filters, which guarantee (proven by 15 years of history) EvE to be a unique gaming expierience.
To be blunt, those who want fundamentals of EvE being changed have no clue yet or just don’t bring the right mindset. They can become educated or should look for other games to play.
You can write as many letters as you want but as long as the CCP circumvents the basic MMO game rules because of a few bloodthirsty maniacs, Eve do not have future.
Well i am well aware of ccp and the numbers of mails that gets ignored. But i have got in touch with them before, and that was success. Another time there was parts of my mail that was a success.
so i know what i am doing
I definitely agree with you about ‘bloodthirsty maniacs,’ but they’re not just on eve. Every mmo is filled to the brim these days with griefers. I tried ESO, and while I love the genre, played all the single player iterations, the introduction of other people definitely ruins it. You try to do anything at all and you have to navigate through hordes of idiots jumping all over the place, running back and forth, getting up and down from their mounts… Half of the time you can’t even do a quest because you’ll be doing the puzzle or whatever, and some jerk will walk by and tell you what order to push the buttons in to solve it.
If I walked into Whiterun with my toon on skyrim and saw the npcs acting like they were having a mass epileptic fit and couldn’t stand still for a second, I’d call that a major bug. But in ESO, well, it’s MMO - what can they do about it ruining the immersion? Nothing, of course. You just have to put up with it.
Well, I don’t. I deleted the game. Truth be told, I’m getting sick of Massively Maniacal Oppression in games, period. More and more, I like the single player games, where I can walk into a town, and mass seizures and insanity are not the order of the day, where vendors and quest-givers are not murdered by maniac griefers like in warcraft, etc, etc.
In other words, you. People. Everywhere, all the time, doing gods knows what for who knows what drug induced reason. I’m sick of you, so. Basically this is the last MMO I have, and I’m definitely not looking for another one. I have a switch, and mario kart 8 is a fun game when I want a break from more serious ones.
Tipa
Experienced players cannot go back and experience what it’s like to be a new player in EVE. They know too much.
And there’s a second factor:
Almost everyone agrees that EVE doesn’t suit all gamers. Versions include “Players self-select to suit the game”, and “EVE’s not for everyone”. Despite capturing the same (probably correct) idea, both are usually followed by insults that are directed to distinct groups of players /lol.
No vet who’s used the “not for everyone” version can reasonably claim to be qualified to make suggestions for retaining new players. They’re not, and have never been, part of the class of PvP competitive gamer that leaves EVE after one trial.
Your posts are much more constructive, and much less destructive, than most vets who post here. Nonetheless I think both comments apply to you - you can’t relive the beginner experience, and you don’t understand the gaming perspective, motivations, or objectives of the majority of people who trial EVE and then leave forever.
I can’t turn back time, but I can remember the key points and emotions which made me play and stick after the first days and weeks. Because they did work, they are valid to others as well, but of course there are more.
For those who left early despite knowing how EvE works, frankly I don’t care, because they don’t belong here anyway. This because I believe you have to bring an own motivation and openess to play EvE, not something other’s can create for you.
Conclusion: better educate new players about the nature of EvE to let them make an informed decision, plus stregthen the core elements of sandbox play.
Tipa
Neither of us will change the other’s mind over this I think 
I firmly believe that “no change” is not a good path forward for EVE, but it’s a small game. With enough new Korean customers, the income issues could be resolved concurrently without any major changes to the game.
One “nitpick” (with some content after it): I didn’t intend to identify this class of beginner:
In case it was this:
… the text including “PvP competitive gamer” is intended mean in include people who might enjoy EVE, and exclude those who probably shouldn’t even trial EVE.
It’s definitely a competitive game, but EVE’s PvE competition is not exceptional. Competitive grinding for resources in “PvP enabled” is much the same everywhere. There are additional opportunities for PvP (like attacking transport ships), but it’s more of the same in terms of the combat.
And balancing that EVE has a real problem with the amount of interesting combat, so I think it balances out.
Bottom Line: IMO any MMO PvPer is a candidate, but a pure PvE player is less likely to be well suited for EVE
FWIW: I think what’s interesting is ownership of territory via combat.
IMO if CCP were smarter they’d put a lot of effort into making that more accessible faster for new players. And keep it unstable. IRL the defender is usually considered to have a significant advantage (typically quoted at 3x). IMO games should be tuned so the defender has no advantage, so while it’s possible to hold territory, it’s never going to be easy.
OTOH we probably agree (more or less) about this, so I won’t say more
Can I have your stuff?
Not “why i’m wrong” but “where i’m wrong”.
Where:
You’re right. I repent and withdraw my argument. If you can sit there and beat me, and nine hours later, your bubbles are still up?
It’s never happened, but hell, I’d almost suicide to you for that level of dedication. Almost.