Read it above again and tell me again where I used honourable?
So let me say to you in the same way! Are you telling me that over the years all the advice given by many players including yourself to jump in a frigate and do 1v1 in FW is wrong, because that is effectively what you and he are telling me.
See I can do it, not that I want to of course…
I imagine it’s from this:
What made the kills before that not ‘real’?
Go and check the solo kills before that, then use that brain of yours. It is pretty evident, or is it? Perhaps I don’t understand how the brains of certain posters here works, perhaps I do, has to be forum warfare.
The most amusing thing is that I preferred small gang combat above anything else, though many of my kills are of course in major battles with the odd race against CONCORD too, but who cares. (As in expecting the normal vapid dissection of my KB to start, LMAO)
Hold on, this thread will now be turned around to all be about me, and flagged as off topic so I can get a slap by the ISD. Forum warfare indeed…
If you don’t want people to make assumptions about what you’re saying, maybe explicitly state what you’re saying, rather than implying stuff by calling it ‘pretty evident’ or ‘real kills’.
Again you are making it about me.
Why didn’t I say that ceptor kill in a Sabre as being a real kill? Ask yourself why? Come on!
Would it not just be easier for you to tell us what you mean?
You complain that we misunderstood you. But now that I’m asking to you to clarify you’re linking your killboard and saying ‘go fetch’.
We just don’t understand what/why you differentiate as real or not real when it comes to new players doing solo pvp. I thought it was the expectation that new players should be able to get ‘real’ (not miner) kills. But you say that was wrong.
So…?
Only about what you meant by ‘real’, in the context of new players and solo pvp.
Because if i ask: do you think it’s shameful for new players to solo hunt miners?
I feel like that would make you more defensive. But it’s only because we’ve clearly misunderstood what point you were trying to make when you brought up the experience of your first ‘real’ solo kill.
The problem there is that when people project on you and you explain that projection as being wrong there is something else going on, I am well aware of the strawman type argument used in these forums. Often I decided to explain myself in good faith only to get told I was off topic and so on.
You did notice that ceptor kill before did you? I was in a sabre with a DPS solo hunting fit and no cloak. That was a dumb decision to engage me by that Goon, that was the reason I did not define it as a real kill in terms of saying I am there as a reasonable player.
I only just picked up on this paragraph, I was saying that new players want to have real combat fights and that was the point I was making.
Here is the issue that both you two have, you are making the link between real and shameful, not me.
I will answer that question by telling you that a while back a new players asked me about hisec ganking when I was in Tactical Supremacy, so I explained to him what ships to go after in a solo catalyst, gave him the fit and told him to have fun! I also told him that it is not as easy as people make out, so he would have some fails.
In the context of Eve it is one way of developing PvP skills, but the best fights are those where it is a real fight where both can win and you make decisions and moves to get the combat in your favour. In that Thrasher fight I did something to make him an easier kill, which is why I said I had arrived.
He gated in, I did the scared chicken move to gate, he burnt at me with his MWD on full on, I waited until he was in optimal range to get my damage on with his sig blown up while mine was not. I made that kill, a real kill.
Again, a ‘real fight’.
What is a real fight?
For me a real fight is with players on both sides.
Read that again. Blimey!
Qualified it afterwards.
Still I had a real fight with diamond rats several times.
What was it that made your fight with the thrasher a ‘real fight’? I’m just trying to understand. You baited him by playing a game of chicken and blew him up when he made the mistake of coming after you.
Nice kill!
But I don’t see how that fight is any more real than other kills.
And that’s the bit i wanted to clarify.
It’s often that ‘real’ kill or ‘real’ pvp refers to ‘honourable’.
That’s not what you meant. Ok, you’ve made that clear. But i didn’t know what you did mean by it.
So if by real fight you’re talking about fights that both players can win; how does something like that happen for new players?
You really have an issue reading things at times. MWD signal bloom it is there above, I took the risk that he would get away by not using my MWD, I judged that he would orbit me and I was right, I did not use my scram until he turned back on me, just my web. So I got ahead of him on damage and kaboom he blew up first.
You changed your post completely to something more reasonable. Still I mentioned MWD and sig blown up which you ignored, it is important you know.
FW was such a place to get such fights, though it would likely be 1 out of 10 or worse.
If I wanted to use honourable I would have used it. I said real kill which applied to me just as much as my opponent, hence I did not say that ceptor kill. You guys are so hung up on this.
Did I have to repeat everything you said, rather than saying ‘nice kill’?
It’s a nice kill and you outplayed your opponent.
But what makes it a ‘real fight’ as opposed to other fights with players involved? That’s what I still don’t get: your definition of ‘real’.
New players can get fights from day one. They can, if they get some guidance on the how, get their first solo fight and kill day one as well.
I know I am not allowed to put kilmails here so I will likely get my wrists slapped, but it is for illustration purposes:
and then this:
Who won that fight?
Simple the Venture, by 400k. So for when this gets blasted by the powers that be. Venture total value 6.514m 6m destroyed gets ganked by Catalyst worth 14.794m, with 6.929m destroyed. On reflection it was a draw but only if the ganker loot scooped both, a solo new player would likely not be able to do that
Catalyst won.
Venture didn’t want to die or to fight, as the fit shows his intention was mining. Venture got caught and forgot to warp off (it could easily warp off, a single scram is not enough to keep a Venture down) and the Catalyst got blown up by CONCORD, as expected.
It was a fight, a real fight, and the Venture pilot could learn from it and do better next time by warping off in time.
The Catalyst pilot also could learn from it: he could use a cheaper fit next time for a more cost effective kill, and he should bring an extra point next time if he wants to kill a competent Venture pilot, as this time he got lucky as his enemy made a mistake.
Was it a real fight, on the basis of my Sabre vs a ceptor, it was totally expected in my eyes that I would murder that ceptor, which was a Destroyer vs a Frigate, here is a fight between a frigate and a destroyer too and both got blown up. I think the Catalyst lost hands down.
Catalyst only lost in ISK value.
The intention of the Catalyst pilot was to kill the Venture and die to CONCORD. The intention of the Venture was to mine ore. The Venture lost his ship and the Catalyst did exactly what he planned to do.
Catalyst won.
But what does this example have to do with ‘real fights’? I still don’t see what your definition of a real fight is.
I’ve taken solo destroyer fights in frigates and won many times. Destroyer doesn’t immediately win vs frigate. Sure you have to pick and choose your fights to use your ships advantages and your skills vs a bigger target. In fact this is how you have to get solo fights most of the time - by presenting yourself as weaker than the opponent and luring them in. One of the things I love about EVE.
On top of that, the ceptor might have backup which is why he likely came after you.
So it was a real fight - you likely killed tackle and got away before cavalry arrived.
I’ve watched it happen several times with eyes where forward tackle tries to get something and dies. Then the whole fleet turns around as they can’t tackle anything anymore or pauses waiting for the tackle to reship and come back lol.
We have this guy in our alliance that constantly would kill vexors and Ishtars solo in frigates. Then I would egg him on and he started bringing in some myrmadons and even Dominix with a frigate. (I kept joking that he should get a dread solo with a frigate) One of my fave solo kills was where I soloed a Dominix in a bomber lol.
We were talking about new players, but yeah it depends on the ship type and weapons used, obviously kiting and long point vs arty of course, or in your face and active repped, most T1 destroyers don’t do active reps well. but then we get into all manner of fun and games, and the bait part is always fun. I just assumed that people would understand what I was getting at in terms of my sabre vs ceptor fight and the fight between a venture and catalyst.
He was stupid, because his friends were too far away.
A Real fight, you have a different viewpoint to me, a few years ago I came across a new player who had lost two Ventures to a ganker and was close to giving up, to add to it he had lost his cool in local and the ganker was hot for him.
So I private convoed him, calmed him down and with the help of a friend deposited thirty fully fitted ventures, and a couple of loot scooping ships.
I told him what to do and he did it perfectly. He would moan and groan at the ganker say he was quitting and that the ganker was killing his fun. The ganker came in and blapped his Venture ten times all the time with a T2 fitted Catalyst. Each time it happened my friend warped his pod off and warped back to the BM and looted both wrecks. After the tenth time he sent a picture of his hanger with all the loot and the ISK it was worth to the ganker. He did not get ganked again while in a Venture. Who won that fight? Was that a real fight for you?
I am very clear on what a real fight is to me.