So will the misuse of the Hypernet be addressed, disallowing them from bidding on their own items? Certainly this is not an intended use: allowing a user to set a “raffle” then buying 2/3 of the tickets once the first third have been purchased. Win or lose the owner becomes rich very very quickly this way.

# Hypernet Scammers Paradise

How is this misuse?

I’m not seeing anything wrong or scammy about this behavior.

Not sure what you mean by win or lose they get rich…if they lose this they lose a lot of ISK.

For example, someone selling an Injector for 1bil, after taxes and cost of cores that is about 910mil they’ll get for the sale.

So they pay 660mil to buy 2/3 of the tickets, then they lose. They just sold an injector for 330mil and are now out 700ish mil…

(these numbers are estimates, this doesn’t require exact math to get the picture)

Because of the cost of cores and tax, they would have to win more than 2/3 of these to start making profit…hardly game breaking, and totally up to luck.

Waiting for the MER to see how much isk is used in the fees for this.

but if they sell an item for twice its value and buy half the tickets then if they loose they get the items fair market value and if they win they get the items fair market value and the item.

with 48 tickets, each ticket would still be 1/24th of the fair market price, which would still attract buyers.

That’s because you can probably do math.

If you’re a total dumdum though, it’s easy to convince yourself that buying your own raffle tickets is somehow beneficial.

The only scenario in which it can help at all is if the raffle is going to expire without a sell-out, in which case you lose your hypercore deposit, and even then, that’s really just mitigating a ticket pricing fuckup at best.

The “scam” here is that they’re finding just enough morons to buy grooooooossly overpriced tickets, but not enough to fill out the auction. It’s not actually a scam, of course, it’s just gamblers being terrible at math (GO FIGURE).

And if they sell all the tickets they get all of the market value?

0% chance of getting the item back for 200% of the value vs 50% chance of getting the item back for 100% of the value?

Maybe don’t bid on raffles that are obvious scams idk

If you see something that is being sold for twice it’s value what is going to happen is once half the tickets are sold the seller will buy the other half for themselves so they can cash out full value of the item and most likely win it back themselves with a 50/50 chance that costs them nothing extra even if they lose. This way they get your money and their item back quicker without waiting so they can set up to do it again.

They could wait longer to see if all the nodes get sold in 3 days and make twice as much profit with just buying the remaining tickets to make sure they get all the cash in the end but it is much quicker and profitable just to buy the remaining half of the tickets to get your ISK and the other half of the profit isn’t worth as much as getting the item back buying the remaining half because the item is what produces the profit either from the scam or selling it for twice it’s full value price.

The fact of the matter is if you try to let other buy all the nodes and make twice the profit that is one more customer getting what they wanted but if you scam them over and over that is one more player who will continue buying nodes from another scam offer so yes it is always worth it to buy the remaining nodes to win back the item after already making enough profit even if you lose it.

…and you still buy in on it, you’re a fool who is easily parted from his money.

The person buying the ticket gets exactly what they purchased at exactly the displayed price. It couldn’t be any further from being a scam.

I already see that sellers are bringing their prices down to half what it was opening day for the hypernet so the scamming becomes less profitable everyday more and more compete at a lower price for nodes.

The shuffle system organizes to show all the lower priced nodes for the same items so it is harder and harder for players to get away with the scam of selling items for multiple times their value and still winning them back having bought half their own tickets.

So in the long term I don’t see the scamming part to be a problem as players get smarter about how they purchase their nodes and search for offers and others compete at lower prices constantly closer to more honest ranges.

Now the other problem, the 3 day expiry.

It is too short for most people to complete in an honest fashion even without scamming. It wasn’t a problem for scammers because all they needed to do was sell enough nodes to walk away with a profit and buy the rest of the nodes themselves to collect whether or not they won the item back at no additional cost to themselves. It guaranteed that you could complete these scammy hypernet offers easily and walk away happy with either result of ISK or also winning the item back.

However, as prices lower it doesn’t guarantee more people will buy nodes from the same offers and it makes it harder for players to complete their own hypernet offers in a more timely profitable way. Yes, more nodes get sold at lower prices but we will still see offers expire within 3 days if the owners don’t buy out their own nodes.

Selling things at 1.5x their value seems to be the best bet. You attract enough buyers and if there is only a small fraction of the nodes left to be sold it is still worth it to buy them out to collect even if you rarely win back the item with fewer nodes yourself.

What they really need to do more than setting a harder limit of any kind on the hypernet offers (because there will always be others to compete at a lower price) is a way to increase the 3 day only duration.

Maybe an additional fee to put your hypernet offer up for a longer period of time?

My suggestion is aside from the usual fees that players can have the option to multiply the amount of hypercores they use to increase in an equal amount the duration of the offers.

Use double the hypernet cores, get double the duration, etc.

It’s still a complete BS scam, as long as it’s an item that is available on the market.

The only interest is for items that don’t go on the market : limited values, BPCs, researched BPOs, rigged ships, …?

So most offers are sh¡t anyhow.

should the seller buy the remaining tickets ?

TLDR : he should 100%.

Let’s say there are M tickets total, and N remain to be purchased to conclude the raffle.

Let’s call E the effective price E=M×ticket_price ; let’s call V the item’s market value.

Let’s call S the scam value, as S = E-V (that’s the total price added over the item’s market price. if the market value is 512M but the sale is in 512 tickets of 1.5M, S = 512×1.5-512 = 512).

We consider the price of putting his hyperscam already paid ; so we don’t care about this value, it makes no sens to consider sunken costs.

If he does not pay for the tickets, he gets his item back. The gain is therefore V, the value of the item.

If he does, let’s call p = N/M . Its the part of the effetive value he has to pay to complete the hyperscam a swell as the probability to win his item back.

he buys N tickets out of M at a total value of E so he paid p×E, and anyhow he gets paid back E the total value of the tickets so its base gain is E - p×E, plus

- chance p that he wins his own raffle, that is to get back the item value V , => p×V
- chance (1-p) that he dos not win the item => (1-p)×0 .

=> average gain is p×V + E -p×E = E + p×(V-E)

We can replace in the previous gain formula with scam value : E= S+V ; and V-E = -S so

- gain if he does not buy the remaining tickets is V (no change)
- gain if he does buy the tickets is E + p×(V-E) = V+S - p×S = V + (1-p)×S

from this last formulas, we know it’s always better for seller to buy his own tickets back, unless S < 0 (but in that case he was making the raffle at loss) ; or unless 1-p=0 so p=1 that is, nobody paid for his ■■■■. Also if all tickets are sold, his gain becomes V+S = E which is consistent.

Therefore any seller should always buy his own tickets back.

This Redit post explains it all and crunches the #s with a fancy spreadsheet toboot.

Be better if we can block certain user from showing up in your feed/list.

can we get this feature added to the hypernet ???

yes. Don’t use hypernet.

It’s all buyer beware bud.

This is the hypernet working as intended.