Xucca is just a counter point troll with the objective to suck the energy out if you. I’d not bite.
I’ll take this spanking anytime.
But keep in mind, we still don’t die enough.
The issue isn’t whether anyone wants to die, it’s whether anyone accepts to die.
Maybe 0% of players want to die, but 25% of players accept to die, and 75% categorically reject any form of death in the game whatsoever. That’s where the problem is.
I think a lot of longer term players get so they can no longer see the wood for the trees. Everyone adopts a sort of ’ the ONLY way to play Eve is MY way ’ sort of mentality.
My perspective as a relative noob is that a lot of things are just plain crazy, but the oldbies have gotten so used to them that they barely give it any thought. Which is why there is so much contention when the issues do get raised.
Forgive oldbies… they are bit used to see 50k onlines with lot of iskeies in their hands to go out and play ship tossing and welping just for funzz and giggles …
newbs did not know how beautifull it was to having huge layer cakes and so many just throw it to each other face even without worrying about cost and replace… … so these newbs they just happy with a small cookie in their handz … good for them…
1 Like
In game proposed scenarios are sometimes easier to accept as means for destruction, like item degradation --as example–. Given that the material loss is what matters, an unavoidable outcome is indeed a driver for PVP or at least to give stuff a try.
Take the giveaways… we keep receiving stuff most have zero clue what to do with. Those offered items have programmatic degradation encoded, it’s a free item… so no one cares to use it --or not-- but they have an expiration date. So the possibilities are already there.
But the fact is, there are more chances of trying what eventually will disappear. This is IMO the first successful step towards item degradation introduced in a game antagonist to such mechanics by nature.
It was a fundamental mistake for things to be everlasting. When they introd’ dirt and rust to ships, I thought it would be possible to add mechanics similar to item degradation. I did not imagine a ship being lost to rust but a maintenance requirement, or a gain in agility, I dunno… Sadly, it was just cosmetic.
Same as killmarks… imagine if killmarks received the deserved attention…
I know it’s repetitive but my point is, there are ways already there, some without us even knowing or recognizing them, but there are!
And perhaps one or two could increase PVP just by removing the fear of material loss, at least.
@xucca I really like your OP… do you mind or are interested if I make an OP to explain why we still don’t die enough scientifically? As well as explains many other happenings reasons in eve online?
Indeed… we see this all the time.
But we have to agree on basics… like the game’s nature itself.
And not to criticize it or trash the whole deal for it’s not one’s way… but perhaps you have noticed that many changes or new features are not in consonance with the script.
Of course we all have a way, or eventually acquire it somehow. In the end, what we all experience regardless, is that things presented as core initiatives like scarcity or destruction have been mishandled and my opinion is, I can’t just stand by while it keeps happening. Maybe I’m naive in excess but I had to give it a try, in case someone up there doubts we take it seriously and could spare 10 minutes to see what we think.
Even if Aisha thinks she can troll me into trolling a troll.
Be my guest… I only advise to check how I did it… not that this thread is good or whatever… It’s a responsibility. Stick to it.
Damn too much complicated. I thought trolling is not allowed.
I have barely time to write it I don’t think I can fallow that much longer as you did.
1 Like
I don’t know if that will work out in practice though. Just based of my hanger, I have maybe 30 ships of various types, including some I can’t fly yet. When I see a good deal or a corp mate needs to offload something, I’ll pick it up for future use. I have 3 or 4 that get flown in combat all the time, the rest are just standby. If they degraded over time, I wouldn’t take them out just to lose them, I simply wouldn’t buy them until right before I needed them in the first place.
2 Likes
Numbers must be very flexible things in your mind. Other numbers from Destiny Corrupted:
- 50-60% of players engage in mining as their sole activity
- 80% of players absolutely refuse to PvP in any form
- Half of all players willingly engage in PvP
- the grand majority of all people throughout history will refuse to touch a weapon when needed
All made up on the spot to support whatever BS Destiny wants to spread at that time. All wrong.
The fact that millions of players are out there PvPing their face off every day doesn’t even impinge on Destiny’s awareness.
Destiny, you have one sad axe to grind, because in 2014 your corpmates abandoned you and you had to stop PvPing. And you’ve been in the forums ever since crying because “carebears ganked my playstyle by forcing CCP to cater to their demands”.
Face it, plenty of players want to PvP, but those players generally leave EVE for better games because the PvP here is just so bad. Only the weirdos who think prowling space cloaked for 4 hours looking for a sure kill is “meaningful engagement”. Or of course the gank-for-profit-or-salt types. Total minorities, both of them.
CCP doesn’t fix PvP because they don’t care. PvP is the marketing hook. PvE is and always has been CCP’s bread and butter.
When CCP sees a harsh enough decline in business, then maybe PA will force them to do something positive about it. Until then we’re all just basically whistling in the dark. Which is fine, so long as we realize we’re just doing it for it’s own sake.
Degradation already exists in a different form in EVE.
What I mean is that it shouldn’t be such a pain to code.
I understand your point but keep in mind not everything should just become dust. It could be a gradual intro of some items at specific instances…
or…
The other way around, items that you use regularly could receive some sort of bonus.
But the thing is, as long as it leads to more destruction applied between players. it’s more than welcome. Degradation and decay --or the inverse-- is just an example of one way to remove the pain of material loss at least.
In any case, it would only work if someone dies. Enough with the hello-kittian-dress-up-my-barbie… IMO it’s killing the game’s nature as PVP.
Podding… why?.. I think it would be another thing to revise… --In case the “life” loss is also such big deal–.
I mean, podding should derive in a respawn, not a kill if it benefits the detachment that opens the door for Player against Player destruction… That’s what I want and have not seen a single opinion against it.
We have to find a way to die more often.
Why podding kills implants? I guess the data is downloaded to the toon’s brain and if there are specific neural alterations inherent to implants, they could be uploaded to your personal net of up to three current clones and then they’d all be upgraded… You die, another clone inherits the deal… I don’t know
Look, these are not real ideas, it’s just me spewing brain goo nonsense… but think about those elements that are an obstacle for PVP.
Is it too complex? Do we need excess info about the battlefield and adversary constitution?
Are we so full of ifs and ors that we simply decide too late to take an opportunity to engage --if we ever–?
Do we really need that myriad of tank options?
All these things, in one way or another, not only are obstacles for PVP depending on the player but also affect the usability of current hulls.
You have stuff in your hangar also because you just can’t figure a fitting for each scenario. Is it really necessary to have that much?
New things are welcome but also replacements are more than welcome… some ships should just be decommissioned just for their unpopularity. I mean, who the hell undock a Drake nowdays…??
Just kidding, I luv Drakes, they’re beautiful, masculine and mean. But they’ve got castrated horribly too long ago to remember how noice and scary they used to be. Now I see a Drake and I hardly figure what’s it doing… --pun intended–.
I wouldn’t worry about my stuff if I was in your boots.
I’d say there are millions of players out there, not playing eve as well that could be.
The only real obstacle (aside from concrete mechanical ones like CONCORD or war eligibility) for PvP is mental.
Willingness to PvP is an equation balancing fear of death and desire for rewards. Rewards, in large part, are set by the players via the market (a la “invisible hand”). The only functional levers that CCP has to pull are faucet output and sink inputs.
In a very simplified example of this concept, CCP could foster increased PvP by reducing raw resource generation figures, and boosting drop rate values for modules. For example:
- Cut mining values and loot drop rates by 33%
- Increase drop rates from ship destruction by 50% (to 75% expected drop rate)
This would have the effect of shifting PvE activity to PvP activity without heavily affecting overall market availability of items. The effect would be invisible to the naked eye, but statistically there will be a player activity shift. And yes, of course, some players won’t engage in PvP regardless of the additional incentives, so it won’t be linear.
CCP actually tried experimenting with this a few times recently, though most players didn’t notice.
2 Likes
I love how alts always use this excuse. Then when they ruck up against me and Aaron who just post with our mains, they don’t know what to do ROFL.
I had a nice 1v1 astero vs astero last night that I lost. He had 2 faction reps but it was a nice dance for a while. Had a bad feeling since he was just orbiting the data site but I was like you only live once yennoe?
Nope. All playstyles are valid. However, not all New Edeners learn to EVE. That is the difference.
What makes it bad?
1 Like
Lack of skill.
I got distracted and burned my rep out last night. Was a sad panda.
I think this thread is silly as many of the frequent posters seem to want to look at graphs and stats and think that’s the be all and end all of it.
The OP and a few other don’t want to understand that there is actually pvp skill in avoiding pvp and avoiding ship losses. I know of plenty pilots in the past and present who are successfully able to live in dangerous space doing purely pve. The only reason why they survive and are able to experience minimal ship loss is because…THEY UNDERSTAND THE GAME and they understand pvp and many of the possibilities that may arise and how to counter them without even fighting but escaping to safety.
In fact I had my very own “Under the radar” game style, I used to rat in T2 frigates in npc 0.0. I would travel in them and kill rats in them, if I was caught on a gate I would MWD back to the system I just came from, I would rinse and repeat that 10 or 15 times if needed just to get away from my enemy, You won’t find this type of playstyle on any killboard or on any stats on a graph. This is what I used to do without being killed, is that PVP? or does it not count as pvp because no killmail was generated?
As I mentioned before, in order to determine what’s going on we have to consider all aspects, human behaviour is included in this. For example if too many ships are lost by pve’ers doing missions in lowsec over a long period time then guess what…the word will actually spread that missioning in lowsec is a bit difficult and less and less people will attempt it as time goes on. This is just the natural progression of things which people may have adapted to and simply decided not to do it very often or not at all.
When I briefly came back to highsec and started a corp we attempted missioning in lowsec and lost a couple of battleships so we wasn’t in any hurry to go back.
Are most of the threads like this? I’m finding that the OP has obviously noticed a change in Eve and rightly so, but what I don’t get is that the OP and many others are not open to considering what other people say about the situation. I thought the OP made this thread because he is seeking understanding but it is evident it’s just a thread which is here to impose a certain negative view about Eve.
So much is ignored in this thread and in game, it’s unreal. Eve is a great game if you’re able to take the time to learn it fully. It really is your very own sci-fi movie where you are the main star.
EDIT: If it does turn out to be that pvp has declined because more pilots have leveled up and learned how to avoid loss by noticing when it’s a bait or doing more scouting or keeping clear of pvp hotspots then I say fair play to them, I will accept the game as it is and continue.
2 Likes
Things were never meant to be “everlasting” and all being equal, they aren’t. Player interactions, were meant to keep “everlasting” in check. Sadly though player interaction (pvp) drivers have diminished while production has increased.
So you want to punish players for owning in game items. That would be one of the most effective ways to trim a diminishing player base even faster.
Lets use the AT here. The rewards for winning are rare and often very valuable, now tell those players (many who spend billions of their own is to compete) that their reward will disappear in X amount of time.
It is indeed but via player interaction not a game mechanic the players have no control over.
So bottom line - How do you get players to engage where outcomes involve loss of assets in a meaningful way.
My answer - Make the game less safe, by changing some of the things that make destruction of your enemies something players see as “exciting” instead of a drawn out pita where N+1 + game mechanics wins.
Fix docking in structures for Supers and Titans. Change it so they can only dock to repair or refit and must log off in space (like it used to be). This “could” help with limiting Super Umbrellas by again locking a pilot to a ship. No more 1 pilot can do it all, if you want a Super, have a dedicated pilot for it.
Make keeping your structures safe harder, by reducing timers and removing damage caps (at least in nulsec and lowsec). The structure game is won and lost by N+1 and player selected timers, give it some meaning.
Yes my thinking is around nulsec content - As that is where I’ve spent most of my time in Eve.
I have more thoughts but as many here think I’m nothing but a troll or a whiner, I’ll keep them to myself. If you’re at all interested in my ideas and thoughts, you can message me ingame.
1 Like
No, you’ve just completely misunderstood the OP and the thread, and failed to recognize any of the points made in it. All you got out of it was “it seems like somehow people are against PvP”. Which means you missed everything.
The OP is saying “CCP has tried various means to increase destruction in the game. They don’t seem to be working. Why are players not participating in more destruction? What can be done about it?”
All you’re saying is “PvP is pretty groovy” which doesn’t even address the issue. The issue isn’t “what is PVP in EVE like?”. The issue is “Can something be done to increase the participation in and execution of PvP and therefore cause more destruction in EVE?”
This would be a better way of balancing the economy than “Chaos Eras” and “Scarcity” drives. Not that scarcity is bad per se, could be a good thing if they do it right. Certainly Orcs and Rorqs had to be addressed among other things.
People aren’t ignoring your “Oh gosh we had some good PvP times back in the day!” war stories.
They’re just irrelevant to the thread.
And your notion that “less PvP because pilots are just getting better at avoiding it” of course completely ignores the dynamic of new players entering the game, but that’s par for the course.
1 Like