I WAS A CODE. SPACE BULLY

[Galaxy_Pig]

Lucas already proved the fact that ganking is OP in a previous post.

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@Lucas_Kell

contintue to weirdly compare EVE to real life

…and you continue to not understand basic game theory. Sounds good.

[Valiran_Teleros]

@Dracvlad

At the moment me and a couple of other players are looking at the state of Eve and see it is so boring, stale and uninteresting in every way and to trying to do something is a long hard slog against impossible odds, the content is dry because it is all sewn up by major nullsec groups and CCP by trying to go after the excesses of nullsec and botters keep making it worse.

Then…why are you playing?

@Dracvlad

I am told that catching AFK cloaky campers is impossible, however I have done it, I set up to note them logging in, noted where they were then started working through the possible points that they used to create the book mark, I would then try to replicate it and had a cloaky there. Eventually I got on the same grid, the next day I blew him up. Took me two weeks to do that, it did not fall into my lap like your whales, it required me to actually hunt. Part of this was forcing him to camp multiple systems so that in his initial login he was not cloaking in warp because of stupidity and arrogance.

Do you have a killmail to prove it?

@Lucas_Kell

As far as I know AGs have never tried to pass themselves off as “white knights”. That’s always been a label given to them by gankers.

Gankers blow up ships in highsec, and that’s fine. AGs try to stop it, and while hampered by incredible levels of imbalance, that’s also fine. There’s not really good guys or bad guys mechanically. The only real “bad guy” element is that there’s a minority of emotionally damaged gankers who aren’t seeking to blow up ships for in-game reasons, they are seeking to upset the players behind the characters deliberately, which is what historically led to some of them being banned.

I’m not so sure I agree with you there. While you and Dracvlad might not present yourselves as heroes fighting villains, I’ve noticed that the AG crowd has some pretty vocal folks who do and seem to think that gankers are all puppy-kicking sadists IRL.

I’ve no doubt there are some toxic people in the ganker crowd - hell, the thread OP even admitted as much! - but the AG crowd seems to be filled with a lot of folks who don’t quite get that EvE is supposed to be a place where ganking, stealing, and scamming are all allowed because the devs wanted to play pre-Trammel Ultima Online in space.

@Australian_Excellence

But thats me right?

That’s what Drac thinks, so Ugren might be on to something.

@Lucas_Kell

Hardly a surprise. Anti-ganking isn’t a viable mechanic as gank mechanics are so shockingly overpowered.

Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if the AG side of things could interrupt/prevent ganks, provided the mechanics were balanced such that ganking would still remain viable. CCP would probably have to reduce hauler and mining ship EHP to compensate, and maybe a few other things.

Hell, if they implemented my stargate idea it would automatically make things easier for gankers. Barges and freighters can’t move very fast, and having to travel the 15k back to the gate will probably take long enough for a gank fleet to prep and land on grid.

@Bronson_Hughes

Coming into this thread kind of cold (and my first time back in C&P in general in a long time), and as the denizens of C&P are wont to do, I’d like to add my 0.02 ISK to this.

I am not a ganker (although I have ganked on occasion), nor have I ever been part of the New Order (although I have flown with them). That style of play just doesn’t suit my tastes, my way of thinking. Yet I can still say, without doubt or hesitation:

The CODE always wins.

It always wins because it is a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s a brilliant piece of social engineering, buried in plain view in an online game.

• Ganks someone and succeeds? The CODE wins. One more ship destroyed, and hopefully one more pilot awake and at the controls from now on.
• Ganks someone and fails? The CODE wins. Hopefully one more pilot awake and at the controls from now on.
• Someone stages a defense and succeeds? The CODE wins. They got other pilots up off of their but and into the game.
• Someone stages a defense and fails? *The CODE wins. One more ship destroyed, and they got other pilots up off of their but and into the game.

Are there members of the New Order who are just bullies or salt collectors? Sure. Are there political and economic drivers behind suicide ganking? Absolutely. But at its core, the CODE is about getting people involved in actively playing EvE instead of just AFKing their way through it, and with everything they do, they accomplish that goal, whether they succeed in a gank or not.

You can’t beat the CODE. The more you fight it, the more it wins.

I’ve pointed this out before in this thread; it’s called the Xanatos Gambit. It means executing your plans in such a way that you end up benefiting from the outcome, no matter what that outcome is.

Hell, the only time I can recall CODE. actually losing is when their team rage-quit the Alliance Tournament and left James with the unenviable task of trying to spin that as a victory. It would have been better if they flew a bunch of max-yield, untanked haulers and barges as a bloody sacrifice to The Savior Of Highsec.

@Bronson_Hughes

You’ll note that I referred to The CODE as an idea , not a group of players. Players can win and lose. Players can abuse ideas or stay true to them. But the idea behind The CODE , in its true form, always wins because, intentionally or not, it was built as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This, right here? This is an undeniable truth.

@Ramona_McCandless

Isnt this section about fictional crime and punishment?

How is being a pirate or lawful permit enforcement officer not what C&P are about?

It’s not treated by the staff as an in-character RP forum, but you’ll never see Aiko acting like CODE. aren’t the ones who make the rules, not CCP. Hell, she even posted some nonsense about CODE. winning ATXII when I brought it up in another thread.

I think she’s tried posting in the IGS forums before, but her posts tend to get deleted by the mods because she keeps breaking the fourth wall, so to speak.

@Nicolai_Serkanner

And that isn’t the same thing?

The way I see it, I’m not being told how to play unless they actually communicate with me via text or voice chat and say something like “this is how you should play”.

If they just attack me then they’re an obstacle/challenge I need to avoid or learn to overcome, just like I would in any other game. Humans just happen to be more adaptable and unpredictable than video game AI, so accomplishing this task can be difficult.

@Lucas_Kell

What I play tends not to be influenced by random autistic children on the internet lobbing insults about.

Oi.

Don’t go throwing around “autistic” like a slur. That’s not okay.

@Runa_Yamaguchi

No. You are confusing RL penalties to RL mechanics. The penalties are different (20 years vs ship loss) but the reaction of the law is the same; it’s after the crime.

True, but when someone starts walking toward a store while openly carrying a loaded gun (red safety setting) then folks tend to notice, and if those folks are both immortal and heavily armed (capsuleers) then it’s all the more likely that violence will ensue.

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@Valiran_Teleros

True, but when someone starts walking toward a store while openly carrying a loaded gun (red safety setting) then folks tend to notice, and if those folks are both immortal and heavily armed (capsuleers) then it’s all the more likely that violence will ensue.

Also true…So the red blinky types are already free-targets. But if you are not blinky, ie hiding the weapon, nobody will notice. Criminals almost always have the advantage.

• they set the time
• they set the place
• they can gather intel on the target
• the target doesn’t know anything about the attacker
• etc

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Valiran_Teleros

It’s not treated by the staff as an in-character RP forum

I didnt say it was. But I did say it wasnt about real crimes or punishments, so why would anyone here be replying as their live at home wage slave selves?

Also C&P has always been treated differently to other sections by the moderators, and (when they actually moderated) was given a looser leash.

[Xeux]

@Valiran_Teleros

Hell, the only time I can recall CODE. actually losing is when their team rage-quit the Alliance Tournament and left James with the unenviable task of trying to spin that as a victory.

This only increased the notoriety of CODE. It was all people could talk about. That doesn’t seem like losing.

[Lucas_Kell]

(O_o)

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Valiran_Teleros

the Alliance Tournament

Actually, we won that Tournament. Check the archives of minerbumping and learn the truth!

[Bronson_Hughes]

@Valiran_Teleros

Hell, the only time I can recall CODE. actually losing is when their team rage-quit the Alliance Tournament and left James with the unenviable task of trying to spin that as a victory. It would have been better if they flew a bunch of max-yield, untanked haulers and barges as a bloody sacrifice to The Savior Of Highsec.

That would have been truly glorious. Pity they didn’t think of it in the moment.

@Valiran_Teleros

@Lucas_Kell

What I play tends not to be influenced by random autistic children on the internet lobbing insults about.

Oi.

Don’t go throwing around “autistic” like a slur. That’s not okay.

@Lucas_Kell

I’m not. I’m simply suggesting that someone with clear social issues who spends the vast majority of their time multiboxing a gank fleet is likely on the spectrum.

Using the terms “autistic” or “on the spectrum” in this way is absolutely, 100%, undeniably, not okay…

If you want to trash talk people who spend all day multi-boxing @Lucas_Kell , that’s fine, but don’t do it in a way that belittles folks actually struggling with autism. That level of abelism is truly insidious and harmful, and I will report it to CCP emphatically if I see you using it again.

[Galaxy_Pig]

Lucas actually proved that we’re all autistic bullies in a previous thread.

[Nicolai_Serkanner]

@Valiran_Teleros

f they just attack me then they’re an obstacle/challenge I need to avoid or learn to overcome

Indeed, so the premise is correct: the one that shoots you decides how you play (at that specific time).

[Galaxy_Pig]

Lucas and Drac actually proved the premise correct in a previous thread.

[Bronson_Hughes]

@Lucas_Kell

Go ahead. Serious moderation is basically non-existent on the forums these days. The word “retard” has been used offensively more than 20 times in this thread alone (which you conveniently don’t find offensive) and all of the users of it are still quite happily posting away. If CCP takes action against me for genuinely believing someone to be autistic but no action against others for outright calling people “retard”, all it would do is demonstrate a clear bias.

So, basically you’re saying that because other people have said worse, and because CCP isn’t doing anything about it, you using a medical condition as an insult is okay?

No. Sorry, but no. This is no different than misogyny, using a racial slur, or gay bashing. It needs to stop.

This is not okay.

“Whatabout-ism” isn’t a defense, it’s a deflection. It means you can’t (or at least aren’t choosing to) defend what you’re doing.

Also…I haven’t read this entire thread. I did happen to notice your comment. I can’t react to comments I haven’t read.

[Bronson_Hughes]

@Galaxy_Pig

Lucas actually proved that we’re all autistic bullies in a previous thread.

If you could please, either post here or eve-mail me a link where this happened.

Thanks.

[Galaxy_Pig]

It’s already here on the forums somewhere, so I don’t have to.

[Lucas_Kell]

(O_o)

[Xeux]

Lucas Kell: never wrong.

[Bronson_Hughes]

A few things.

1. I’m not a CODE supporter.
2. I am not in any way obligated to have read an entire thread before commenting on it.
3. I actually am on the autism spectrum, so maybe this is why I’m both particularly sensitive to it and in a better position than you to judge whether your use of it is insulting or not.

Yes, that’s right, just you told someone who is on the autism spectrum to “get over it” when you used being on the autism spectrum as an insult. You may as well tell a person of color to “get over it” after you dropped an N-bomb on them.

Seriously. WTAF is wrong with you?

[Lucas_Kell]

(O_o)

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Lucas_Kell

I’m in a perfect position to determine if I’m being offensive

Thats not how it works and you damn well know it.