Since many people didn’t like my original suggestion, I have changed it to the following:
Anyway, another idea I considered which may work better is a sort of standing system with the Triglavians like everybody else. If the Triglavians do know a lot about us, then they’d know we can swap sides, even to theirs. So my suggestion is a sort of standing system which can be gained by proving yourself in the Triglavian Arena which you can access. The more times you win, the more standing you get. You would start on negative standing, but you can work your way into positive standings, and when you reach an adequate standing, you would get a device (you cannot sell this, but you can take it off of your ship) which is fitted to your ship, allowing you to teleport into a Triglavian system whenever you want, wherever you want, which would be patrolled by Triglavian ships and would have a series of space stations where you can dock. Here you could find agents and other mission-related things, and find a store for Triglavian items using Loyalty Points (they would be at high prices), and you could do these missions as part of a ‘Triglavian Storyline’ to earn standings, equipment, Triglavian stuff and so on. Essentially you could play for the Triglavians. However, if you go back down to negative standing, the guards in the system would attack you on sight, and if you decided it’s a good idea to use that device on negative standings it could end up being “deactivated” and therefore cause damage to your ship upon attempting to use it. You would be unable to use the device if you were in combat with an NPC or player recently. Rewards would include anything from simple items slightly better than what you’d find outside of that area, to special Abyssal items or even ships / skillbooks (the rewards would depend on the difficulty of the missions; and all missions would be difficult due to the nature of the rewards you get.
And how would NPCs react to all your standings? The guard NPCs I already explained, but the NPCs you find in Triglavian systems would cease to attack you, as I said, but Abyssal Deadspace Triglavians which you can find with the filaments would still attack you. If they didn’t it would be rather stupid anyway.
So what do you think of this? Better than my original idea?
This is overly complicated, difficult to conceptualize, difficult to implement, easy to royally mess up and piss everyone off at how much it sucks and how little everyone uses it.
However… in a more general sense, there is an idea I had that I never got around to posted that is similar in spirit to what you posted:
NPCs of different factions should be visible having conflict in space, with NPC forces coming and going and skirmishes and fleeting and being wiped out and everything. You have the option to get involved and aid a side or attack both. If one of both sides is hostile to you, then you’ll be caught in the crossfire by virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
CONCORD rats (the killable kinds found in missions that don’t instakill you) could be among them, as would faction navies. This is a more general idea, more easily implementable, fewer… lore issues regarding Trigs specifically (I don’t think they need more integration past invasions given what little integration they have historically)
There is a thing called IFF system in combat aircraft today. So imagine how advanced these system would be in EVE time.
So any player ship would instantly be detected as lost or as enemy. Reason for detected as enemy is you got ships from one of the faction spaces or a player structure, which would have mounted a registered IFF module for you and ship, if not as soon as you undock every ship in system would detect you as hostile and attack you on sight.
Think that should example enough to put you OP out of the question basket. Sorry.
Pretty much this. You are not flying triglavian ships - you are flying ships built by players. Whats more is that the very 1st attempt to communicate with you will give you away.
Just a reply to the three of you, I think I overcomplicated it
If you flew a Damavik into Triglavian space, based on the nature of Triglavians and their lack of knowledge of New Eden, they should think you are their ally until you attack them. It would mean that you aren’t really doing missions but you get that opportunity to kill people with some Triglavians. Obviously, there would need to be debuffs, which is up to the devs (I did make my suggsetions). Also, it’s not about communicating. If they’re fighting CONCORD and some random ship that looks a lot like theirs shows up and begins doing stuff with them, they’d think it’s friendly.
Alternatively, maybe we could be able to install a module to our ships in a high slot that allows us to do this but it would be very difficult to obtain
I understand your arguments, but I think it’d be a good feature
Doesn’t mean they’d know we’d use their ships. And with the module I mentioned that’d further disguise the signature as being one of their own, so they would be able to believe it.
Like, okay, you enter Abyssal space bland don’t get agressed by them. You still die after the 20 minute timer, so you better clear the room and move on. The effect is still the same.
Concord putting their own bounty on you sounds like another broken opportunity to exploit an isk faucet by running trig missions, build up magical bounties from npc concord and having an alt kill your ships to farm the bounty. Bad idea.
And let’s say you show up on overview as a triglav and you happen to be in an invasion system. It’d be pretty unfun to shoot a random triglav ship that is (for all intents and purposes just another triglav ship) only to be Concorded because it was actually a player pilot ship.
Bunch of “sounds cool but doesn’t actually do anything to improve the game” ideas here.
It adds extra opportunities. Also, they would still aggro in Abyssal deadspace, but not outside of it. I was going to mention that. Something I also forgot to add to what I was saying is that you would only show up as a Triglavian to the Triglavians - the algorithm of this module would mean players don’t see you as that, unless you are fighting with them, in which case you can just rename your ship and look like another one of them. Plus, if you begin fighting with the Triglavians, CONCORD will stop protecting you until a timer expires.
So to summarise on what I just said, you still get attacked in Abyssal Deadspace, CONCORD will stop protecting you and players will see you as another player but can kill you if you fight with Triglavians.
So if I fly into Minmatar space in a Minmatar ship, I should be presumed an ally? And if I flew in an Amarr ship, I should be presumed an enemy? No, this won’t work, not even for Triglavians. If they’re scouting us out so much, then they know we’re utilizing their technology.
Yes and no. While I don’t think it needs to be so damn realistic like the IFF system that @dewk mentioned, it’s more involved than which side(s) you engage. Consider NPC miner fleets, for example: They might aggro you based on your standings with them. This means that they already know who you area; you have standings with them. Likewise, if you have low faction standings with an empire and travel in their space, their navies will fire upon you. So I think there’s plenty of room for NPCs and factions to know who you are (with FTL comms and massive databases, this is not implausible) and your standings be affected by your actions.
As stated already, Trigs/Sleepers/etc know A LOT about us. Just because they’re not involved or interact with us (until recently) doesn’t mean they aren’t watching you sleep at night.
I’m not talking about other factions. The empires all know you can change sides. Triglavians don’t know that.
It’s difficult to explain. I mean, alternatively there could be a standing system with triglavians too except you start on negative, and you can work your way up over time by doing things for / with them? I’m not so sure, but I understand your issues. I didn’t think of all these, but I think a standing system could also work with them. The Triglavians are fascinated about Capsuleers anyways, so it wouldn’t be so far-fetched for them to consider recruiting a few / having them do missions for them / help them if you decided to improve your standings with them.
I know you were only talking about Trigs, but here’s the thing: The Triglavians DO know you can and do change sides. You know why? Because they’ve been monitoring us for years and they’re pretty damn smart.
Fair point. But then they’d know we can change to their side. By lore triglavians are fascinated / obsessed with capsuleers, and they call capsuleers “augmented citizens” - suggesting they may think capsuleers are just like their own citizens. So, it wouldn’t be so far-fetched to have a system where we can work for or with the Triglavians using a special device or standings that could be earned from the arena they have.
While I agree with most of the replies, that Trig shouldn’t ignore you simply b/c you’re in a Trig ship… nor would the Minnie navy ships ignore you just b/c you’re in a Minnie ship… It’s not without precedent either.
The Zephyr was a fancy looking shuttle handed out to everyone when Wormholes were first released, in order to coax players into going and checking them out. They are a little tiny Shuttle sized craft, with the ability to fit a Core Probe Launcher and nothing else. And they are completely ignored by Sleeper drones, so you can warp into sites and look around without being harassed by the Sleepers inside. So it’s not that far of a stretch to say that a group of Rats would ignore a specific ship for a specific reason.
But… the Trig are not automated Sleeper drones. They are sentient pilots, every one. And they are going to notice when some random Joe is flying a ship that looks vaguely similar to their own. Remember, we are not flying Trig ships. We’re flying New Eden approximations of Trig ships. Which, incidentally, is why I think Jove should be one of the upcoming Precursor lines eventually. They don’t need to be as powerful as Jove ships were, if they’re just an approximation.
Regardless, I do think Trig ships need some sort of bonus while in Abyssal space. Like an extension to the 20 min timer, since they’re supposed to be able to handle the stress of Abyss space. Or maybe they are immune to whatever penalties the Abyss flavor would have imposed on your ship. Like going into a Dark and gaining the Speed bonus, but not suffering the Turret penalties. Something like that…
What about those of us who have zero interest in flying Trg ships or who don’t want to be inconvenienced by shifting our skill queue and the expenditures to acquire and fit Trig ships? Should we be disadvantaged relative to Trig pilots? All of a sudden those who maxed their shield tanking skills, for example, have to start from scratch to improve their armor tanking? Should a Minmatar pilot gain bonuses for flying Minmatar ships and/or flying in Minmatar space? Should they receive penalties for flying in Amarr space?
I would agree with this suggestion if Trig ships were zero-skill ships like SoCT ships are, but they aren’t. Therefore, I have to vehemently disagree.
It’s bad enough that Polaris ship bonuses are tied to security status… if I stole a police car, it’s not going to slow down because I’m a criminal…
Anyone that hasn’t maxed both armour and shield skills is only disadvantaging themselves.
It has nothing to do with trig ships. These two skill groups are like navigation and engineering skills, they benefit all ships.
Even if you’re armour tanker or shield tanker, or just an indie, having both protection means if shields fail you have armour resistance bonus to fall back on, or a little extra shield resistance before they hit your armour tank.
Although bonuses aren’t that good of an idea as they kill the challenging nature of Abyssal Deadspace, I think a 5 minute or so extension to the timer in Abyssal Deadspace would be a good idea, since, as you said, their ships are supposed to be (as said in the description of filaments) able to handle the filaments themselves. However, other bonuses would be stupid. Even NPCs are affected by the bonuses in Abyssal Deadspace so it would make it somewhat unfair if Triglavians could best survive.
Anyway, another idea I considered which may work better is a sort of standing system with the Triglavians like everybody else. If the Triglavians do know a lot about us, then they’d know we can swap sides, even to theirs. So my suggestion is a sort of standing system which can be gained by proving yourself in the Triglavian Arena which you can access. The more times you win, the more standing you get. You would start on negative standing, but you can work your way into positive standings, and when you reach an adequate standing, you would get a device (you cannot sell this, but you can take it off of your ship) which is fitted to your ship, allowing you to teleport into a Triglavian system whenever you want, wherever you want, which would be patrolled by Triglavian ships and would have a series of space stations where you can dock. Here you could find agents and other mission-related things, and find a store for Triglavian items using Loyalty Points (they would be at high prices), and you could do these missions as part of a ‘Triglavian Storyline’ to earn standings, equipment, Triglavian stuff and so on. Essentially you could play for the Triglavians. However, if you go back down to negative standing, the guards in the system would attack you on sight, and if you decided it’s a good idea to use that device on negative standings it could end up being “deactivated” and therefore cause damage to your ship upon attempting to use it. You would be unable to use the device if you were in combat with an NPC or player recently. Rewards would include anything from simple items slightly better than what you’d find outside of that area, to special Abyssal items or even ships / skillbooks (the rewards would depend on the difficulty of the missions; and all missions would be difficult due to the nature of the rewards you get.
And how would NPCs react to all your standings? The guard NPCs I already explained, but the NPCs you find in Triglavian systems would cease to attack you, as I said, but Abyssal Deadspace Triglavians which you can find with the filaments would still attack you. If they didn’t it would be rather stupid anyway.
So what do you think of this? Better than my original idea?
This is obviously true, but you know what I meant . Point is: we should not be disadvantaged against other players with respect to a PVE instance having a different set of rules solely on the basis of the faction of ship you’re in.
. Point is: we should not be disadvantaged against other players with respect to a PVE instance having a different set of rules solely on the basis of the faction of ship you’re in.