Unification is another word for submitting to the Empire.
Better to get a clue who you’re gettin’ snooty at before you go lecturing people.
This is just damned stupid. You wanna blame Goons, that’s totally reasonable, since, you know, Goons made sure the system fell to spite TEST. But trying to paint it as a Republic action is just… insane. Really.
While the Praxis is definitely more accessible in terms of skill training, uniform doctrines provide more reliable and predictable performance, which means the FC needs t ospend less time wondering if they have the tools to do the job they’re presented with—be that the Trigs, or the sudden appearance of Kybers. While I can appreciate your perception that add survivability makes a case for flying a non-doctrinaire ship, what I see is exactly the opposite: your fleets needed more specialized, doctrine ships. Specifically, you needed more logistics. Logi makes the math real simple: if you bring enough, nobody dies (unless they’re off being stupid in ways they shouldn’t). If somebody dies, and they weren’t being stupid? You didn’t bring enough logi.
Bring enough logi, and there’s no issue of ‘outlasting’.
This is out of context to spirit of my original post, we all submit to something, if not the empires then the triglavians, the republic/federation over the amarr/safari state, an alliance or corporation, it’s these decisions that define us not just as capsuleers but as human beings.
The empires are far from perfect, but I would fight for the defence of the people in the systems torn apart by war and cut off by the triglavians.
This is probably the root of all troubles prompting the emergence of seemingly lame EDENCOM among other things. Is not reconciliation an option to consider, albeit the tiniest one?
In many a case it does, although can also be used as an excuse by those seeking establishment of universal new order under their sole total control disregarding sentiments, interests, and long-standing aspirations of any local entities, which is what @Elsebeth_Rhiannon appears to be concerned about, drawing the public attention to deeply alarming developments. In this context, EDENCOM might be even a greater threat to true freedom, independence, and cultural diversity than the Triglavians who could just end up in their own niche among the core powers of New Eden, ultimately to mutual enrichment, both material and spiritual
While this is true, I have to ask people bug off to Off-topic or a new thread if they want to continue the EDI non-ending and as thus no doubt fascinating to some debate about “is doctrine actually a good thing”.
This post is not about EDI, it is about Edencom, international politics, and the best way to ensure the survival of the tribes.
I think most people in this thread are all for shooting Triglavians. It’s just that platitudes aren’t going to stop the empires from fighting with one another.
I feel like some people (understandably) hyper-focused on the Triglavian invasions and assumed EDENCOM’s existence means that the empires have been “playing nice” with one another. But… they haven’t. Floseswin was still going on at the start on the invasions and it’ll probably be time for round 2 soon.
Sad to hear, hope won’t prove as coordinated effort as it might seem…
Surely not a desired course of the discussion. Rather, someone viewing the latest events from the vantage point of autonomous tribal territory peacefully and beneficially confederated with the Empire, might come up with the following general suggestions regarding the matters so appropriately pointed out in the opening post:
Have EDENCOM focus on what they appear to be most productive and successful at - R&D. Their technologies are nowhere near worthless.
National militias, instead of wastefully fighting each other to no avail, could turn on the Triglavians in a bid to retake their respective systems. Local navies should be ready to provide support in case any major threats to national security arise from the fighting. EDENCOM on their part could monitor the situation providing incentives in form of payouts/technology access for greater number of independent pilots to join the fight in most threatened sectors. However, this should by no means be a war of extermination against the Trigs. There is no more vicious beast than a cornered one… Thus,
Attention of the Trigs could be directed to the regions like Delve, Stain, Curse, etc. currently in the hands of rogue groups. They could try and take a few systems as their new home there. Those sympathizing with them (which is not unreasonable given the new technological and cultural opportunities they brought to the New Eden with their invasion) could join the fight on their side in those very regions. Some people would even be able to fight against the Trigs on one front and pro them on the other, in a sort of win-win option. On the other hand, those with vested interests in the said regions might consider helping the current holders defend their turf.
All-in-all, this would provide some interesting opportunities for productive destruction and epic feats which ultimately won’t hurt the well-being of the cluster (hopefully).
This is true, but instead of calls to disband EDENCOM while I hear the valid argument. We need a statement from them on the next steps and what they are planning to do. I feel a counter-offensive should enter into the planning phase (if not already).
Defensive fleets mobilized and resourced to push the Triglavian’s back from Empire Space. Once the internal systems of Pochven become under constant fire it paves the way for EDENCOM to make the push. In turn lowering the pressure on the empires.
Having said that, I agree with the opinions on this thread but we do need to hear from EDENCOM soon. I refuse to believe that they will just give up on those systems.
Triglavians run rampant in systems that were never invaded such as Perimeter and even in EDENCOM victory systems like Bei from time to time. If EDENCOM is going to focus on being offensive in Pochven (which I have no problem with in and of itself), they need to change the rules of engagement for systems that weren’t taken away to allow the local navies not under the EDENCOM banner to engage the Triglavians. Basically, defense against hunting Triglavians should not be left solely up to masochistic capsuleers.
Ask the gilded murderers who invade our planets because they’re mad about Amarr capsuleers cutting deals with TLF members.
EDENCOM’s made no real leaps that I’ve seen. Upwell had the full scale Vorton projector running for years. You can be damned sure it was them, not the added layer of CONCORD bureucracy, that developed the ship-scale versions.
Good luck. Not only do we have perfectly valid reasons for destroying the ships that come to enslave whole planets, CONCORD makes too much money off of the warzones for that to stop.
Sure, we’ll just tell the Trigs ‘hey, those systems you specifically wanted because of the type of star in them? Yeah, go look for different ones over in these other regions that don’t have those stars for no apparent reason’. Oh, wait, that’d require being able to actually negotiate with the Trigs, wouldn’t it?
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see the Trigs come out here. We wouldn’t be fighting with one hand tied behind our backs. Proper doctrines, full range of supercapital assets (Well, not from papi… heh.), it would’ve been much easier than the hoops that had to be jumped through in Highsec. But see, in order to do that, there would have needed to be something the Trigs wanted out here. And what they wanted was those specific stars. They didn’t get all of what they wanted, but they weren’t about to attack things they didn’t want.
Thanks for a good laugh remembering that system. EDENCOM tried so many times to take the system…even had help from Fraternity once. Wasn’t enough. Very fun ensuring KK’s HQ got raided.
That’s fine with me I’m against the Triglavians as long as they take space and attack baseliners, heck, in the spirit of it I would help Amarrian asserts as well, and I got no love for them, after its all over its back to business as usual.
