I do hope for your sake that the Triglavians take over and maintain the Fluid Router Networks required for clone transfers. It would be a shame if their imminent victory came at the cost of your immortality…
FTL communications with the populated planets and other colonial sites in Vale have been maintained, with the Triglavian approach to utilization and administration of the system appearing to differ from that seen in Raravoss. Triglavian forces have certainly landed on the four temperate planets but have made no aggressive moves or threatened the major population centers.
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We shall see. I would not stake my own continued existence on it. I will wait to see how contracts will be dealt with Triglavian entities at the table.
I would hardly call fleets of combat vessels that shoot everything on sight “without provocation”.
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No, U.
There, how is that? It’s really more of a response than you deserve.
Sure, these systems could be their ancient land. Yes, we may have fired the first shot. Maybe they don’t intend to kill everyone on inhabited planets, even though altering stars would have devastating effects. It might possibly be our fault for all this.
But the chips are on the table. Progress demands sacrifice, and I’m willing to sacrifice as many Triglavians as I need to in order to make sure the progress of that which I care about remains steady and unimpeded.
I admit however that i am fascinated by their technology. I would love to get to a point where we can steadily trade with the collective as we have much to learn. THINK of the possibilities, especially with filaments.
Salutations to the others who have chosen to enjoin discussion on this forum. I go by the monicor of ‘Veronw’ and represent a very small transhuman research group. To briefly underline why I am choosing to speak here and what my own stance is, I have explored a majority of New Eden over the last decade. I’ve seen much, fought on more than one occasion for both the Empires and the Empyreans, and chosen to go on my own accord to forge my own path.
The Triglavian Collective, above all I have encountered thus far, stands unique. Not just because of their distinct way of self expression, but because of their ideology inherent in the clades. There’s some argument and debate both here and elsewhere that I’ve watched about their possible origins, their motives, but that detracts from the current topic of conversation. Suffice to say, I am one who is swayed by the allure of their exotic semiotics.
However, there have been a few excellent points brought up by people here regarding the Kybernauts and the Collective: we really don’t know as much about their culture as we should in order to actually participate in it. Even more so, as a member of the Kybernauts, it is clear that this affilation in a growing Clade is nothing more than wearing yet another badge for the time being. Organization is evolving, yes, and new ideas are being presented, yes, but it is very much at its core a normative group of Empyrean capsuleers, hardly something revolutionary.
So then what do the Kybernauts stand for? Simply destroying High Security space? Fighting the supposed tyranny of CONCORD and authority? That doesnt strike me as an objective that would interest the Collective since its fairly banal in motive and is neither mortifying nor glorifying the Flow and merely serves as a pathetic excuse to attack with empty aggression anything that threatens the elemental godhood complex many Empyreans suffer from.
It seems more like a resource gathering operation, and an effort to secure space within the Ancient Domains for… some purpose… perhaps the Drifters and Sansha have pushed the Realm of Bujan harder than we know, and they need an Ancient Domain outlet to establish a relativistic foothold in real space. Though why these inhabited stars, and not one of thousands out in Zero Security space? Or even Anoikis?
But that still leaves the rest of us attempting to divine a purpose out of all of this - if we are truly Kybernauts in the sense of following the Collectives example, then cladistic proving, subclades themselves, and other methods of internal evolutionary pressure are required to create mortification and glorification in order to adhere to the precepts as we understand them.
Alternatively, it could be argued that the reality is that we dont know enough as of yet about the true culture to be able to fully participate in it, and instead are in effect being tasked with creating a fourth clade that stands distant from Perun, Veles, and Svarog with its own norms rather than following a set of base cultural values shared by the Collective.
In light of that possibility, the tactic invitation by the directive emanation of Zorya Triglav and labeling of ‘Kybernauts’ can be seen as an awareness and acknowledgement of the lack of ability for Empyreans to immerse themselves fully within that cultural setting, and instead the Collective wishes to see what it is exactly we choose to create. Evidence of this could be seen in the way the Collective ‘tested’ the capsuleers multiple times, and given their astounding understanding of human psychology, sociology, and advanced predictive modeling, it seems likely that they have elected to allow the Kybernaut Clade to form on its own merits, to be pruned through proving at a later date.
To that, we should be careful, methodical, and appreciative of the subtle depth of these people we seek to emulate and join as Kybernauts, and for those who wish to oppose the Collective, I suppose it comes down to being no different than anything else in our quasi-immortal lives: we support as we choose as fits our belief system of the moment.
Participating with the Kybernauts, I hope that I can help to shape some of the ideologies in play, perhaps stear this newborn organism away from its habitual pathways of wanton destruction in favor of productive evolution through the mechanisms laid out by the Collective and my own study of semiotics.
Additionally, to address the issue of Vale and its population: there are a variety of ways to increase solar energy output onto the habitable planets, as well as to increase the overall temperatures of the surface to help compensate for the loss in luminosity. I plan to establish a larger research presence in Vale, setting up a Citadel or perhaps a small more mobile research base to examine the stellar output drop and ascertain solutions for the population.
Current theories in no particular order include:
- Stellar Mirrors that can redirect more of the star’s light on the planet than what naturally occurs. This can include orbital stellar generators that mimic star light, which is then reflected back to the surface. This is easily achievable with our level of technology and simply demands the material commitment to reach this goal.
- Surface based release of greenhouse gases to increase planetary temperatures via orbital lasers.
- Potentially exploring the use of antimatter as a means of creating high energy plasma near the poles that could rapidly heat the planets surface.
- A rapid shift on a planetary scale away from traditional agriculture to interior style systems until such time that orbital or subsurface infrastructure is in place.
- Establishing suborbital and orbital infrastructure on a large scale to help with both food production and potential housing of displaced populations. Additionally, using nano accelerated assembly to build arcologies (spartan accommodations for the time being but that can be improved upon in time).
While I am mostly alone in my efforts, and my organization is quite small with myself as the only Empyrean, I am dedicated to helping those who are in need. This may seem counter intuitive to those who look at Kybernauts and see nothing but ravenous hordes of bloodthirsty killers, but I am a firm believer that the Flow of all humanity can move in the same direction, and that we can as a collective group improve ourselves. Perhaps it stems as my journey with the Sisters influencing me, but I truly believe that we can co-exist in time.
I can’t redress the grievances that have come from this current war, but I can say that the odds are good that both the Collective and the Empires will have no choice but to figure out what life after will look like. We as Empyreans, both EDENCOM and Kybernaut, have the opportunity to decide early on what that will look like. To you I say; not all of us crave extirpation of non-conforming entities, some of us desire semiosis to establish playful communion when the time is right.
And to the other Kybernauts who are participating in the Flow; I invoke an emanation of prayer for the glorification of the Narodnya of Vale through sobornost to imprint positive noema as presented in the Kybernaut Cladeflow. Glorification awaits.
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Great. Now get those solutions implemented at scale in a matter of days on at least two worlds.
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I feel it is telling that there has really been no substantive response to @Avio_Yaken’s questions. What little response I have seen so far seems more to suggest possible interpretations or inferences based on observed behavior, rather than anything definitive. As these tenets are so oft repeated and are seemingly held so dear by the Kybernauts, it seems a strong understanding of what they are and mean would be crucial to any Kybernaut, indeed to their entire undertaking.
So, please @Scius_Falkenhaupt, as the self-appointed representative of the Kybernauts here, explain to us the Flow of Vyraj and the ideology you fight for. What does the Convocation of Triglav stand for? What do they intend? You repeat their words, but do you know what any of them mean to the Triglavians, specifically? I have no interest in your interpretation of them. I wish to know if you have spoken to them to learn precisely what these concepts represent.
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I am in the process of exploring that currently. I have spent the last twenty four hours surveying the system and noting any unusual elements regarding planets Vale II and Vale VI. So far, both seem to have, from an orbital perspective at least, weathered the events without significant disruption. I even noted a substantial algae bloom happening on Vale VI.
This scouting has also led to the discovery of a few different low orbit sites that I believe will be sufficient to house much larger scale efforts to assist the population. Currently, I plan to inquire about purchasing the existing small structure in orbit of Vale II’s moon, to supplement the existing station there. The owner has taken everything but the stationary object itself, and, I presume, the inhabitants of it. If they are willing to sell me the structure or exchange it for something, it will greatly expedite affairs.
The scale of construction is not an issue. Rather, funds are proving the singular hurdle, as I am but one person and this is an undertaking that would typically warrant er, a -much- larger response. Still, I expect within the next 48 hour period to have initial facilities established and further deployments of assets and materials to the surface.
I’m going to attempt to get into contact with any of the planetary administrators as well, in an effort to coordinate the response on a system-wide basis. Additionally, I intend to attempt to initiate playful communion with the Collective presence in order to ascertain limination advancing-time deployment.
To those who are inclined towards humanitarian services, research, and are wishing to see to the safety of a population of several billion souls, I invite your participation. Never before has good work waited for battle lines to settle down, and this is certainly not an exception. And while allegiances vary, it seems clear all who are participating in this discourse wish to ensure the safety of these people during this transition period.
A small rejoinder as well; Lilly Terranova, I believe it is safe to safe that each Kybernaut has their own interpretation and that in of itself is the goal of the Kybernauts - evolution through iteration. For myself, and some likeminded people within the Clade, the Flow of Vyraj is the essence the species life force for lack of a better term. The flow of humanity right now is one of conflict and struggle, and perhaps it will always be so. Perhaps that is the nature of Outside The Struggle that the Collective refers to itself as. Still, if the demand is inquest from the mouth of God, then no one here can say.
I appreciate your response. However, it is a somewhat problematic one. The Flow of Vyraj is a concept that seems to have significant meaning to the Triglavians given their references to it. There is no particular reason to believe that what this term means to you is anything close to what it means to them, and in fighting for your interpretation of it, you could well be fighting against theirs. The chief point is that you do not know, and as yet, have no way of knowing—unless the Triglavians have communicated directly with you “Kybernauts” separate from the rest of us to explain themselves. Failing that, each of you is simply assigning the Flow of Vyraj to his or her own belief structure and using it as a justification for your actions, and I am left to wonder what your…patrons? masters? lords? would think of this.
Alternately, the phrase has no meaning at all, and it was just a bit of nonsense the Triglavians threw out, wondering whether people would cling to it, and are having a laugh at the expense of those who have, wondering what other phrases they might be made to parrot.
We simply do not know.
If they have that kind of sense of humor and went all this way for the joke, they have more fictional point than Angry CONCORD guy and i will gladly provide a round of beverages for some of them.
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Too late. It’s already been ‘days’. And no, a POS tower isn’t going to provide any kind of measurable population refuge. You’d need about 6 Keepstars per billion inhabitants. I encourage you to look at just what that would take in PI supplies alone.
The scale of construction is absolutely an issue.
(OOC The RP section is as toxic as the rest of the forums.)
CONCORD’s shackles and their consequences:
Not allowing capital ships nor smartbombs in high security space. This has caused disastrous consequences with the Sansha, who abduct populations. As a capsuleer regularly fighting Sansha incursions into Highsec, I cannot tell you how much easier it would be if we could drive capital ships or simply smartbomb the clusters of Sansha, and imagine how many lives that the Sansha abducted that this would save? If Rorquals were allowed in highsec (very bad gameplaywise BTW), imagine how many more ore we can harvest? How much more could we build?
Triglavians:
We do not know them, and while EDENCOM and the nations randomly fortify systems in order to stop them, we should understand them. Yes, indeed, they are harvesting Suns. But does that not mean we should grasp that technology? Since upwell’s structures no longer harvest ores found in highsec for perhaps development of a new ship that does not seem to do much to the populace as a whole, wouldn’t triglavian technology to harvest suns benefit us as much as them?
Energy does not simply disappear. It flows from one place to another. If Triglavians have indeed utilized the energy of an entire sun, then they would squash the entirety of EDENCOM like a joke. No, the sun is fine. Perhaps it is the beam which disrupts capsuleer camera drones or frequency of the light, but the sun is fine.
And furthermore, the idiocy of evacuating a system. As far as I’m concerned, Triglavians have done nothing to planets, stars, and simply installed a system, tiny in comparison to the sun, in order to harvest it, but rather not affecting any other part of the galaxy. This shows our lack of knowledge towards them, and continuing on this path further is a grave mistake.
The flow of Vyraj is, by my interpretation, simply the way things should be. A result that would be fulfilled, that should be fulfilled, and one that we should fulfill. There are so many things that we do not know about them, so we should be humble students, and there are so many things they know about us, so they should be teachers. Let them teach, and we would understand, and prosper.
(First time writing RP this sucks)
That’s what you get by attempting to talk with a Wannabe White Knight trying to sell herself as some kind of hero of humanity while being part of the worst things that ever happened to humanity.
You should try to talk with her White Knight colleague who is now making a list of “Traitors to Humanity” as if she had the authority to decide for the whole humankind who is a Traitor or not. That’s worth a good laugh.
Strong people do not need strong leaders
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Sure. So?..
The intention of the structures is not to act as a population refuge to weather the storm, not unless there was a ludicrous amount of ISK suddenly injected into this Project, and frankly, I don’t see that happening. The facilities are there to try and coordinate a level of response that I can potentially give.
Keepstars would be a bit… overkill I think, when really we can dumb down the technological needs of this to cheap and easily mass produced mirrors, or other similar style stellar objects. It only takes a few hours to build several kilometers of one nanometer thick sheeting, and if these were placed at key points around the planets to amplify light, it would be sufficient to increase local temperatures.
There’s also the matter of isolating locked in greenhouse gas deposits around the poles of both worlds, or taking advantage of the massive algae bloom on Vale VI to accelerate CO2 production. Both are longer term solutions, but I have always advocated for a defense in depth strategy when it comes to terraforming, and that is essentially what this is.
The star so far has remained within the broad spectrum of a G type - I’m not sure if anyone else here in this forum have attempted a visit to the system yet, but so far the stellar disturbances are surprisingly limited in comparison to the O type’s like Raravoss.
For the foreseeable future, I will be stationed in the Cat system while I conduct research and attempt to mitigate what I can. I should note to anyone who wishes to travel to Vale, there have been occasional attacks by pirates who have set up shop in system, though they have yet to pose much trouble to me personally.
Again, I would encourage -everyone- criticizing or otherwise commenting to travel to Vale and see the situation with their own eyes.
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I have. And while I agree, the star hasn’t been turned black yet, the energy output is definitely reduced. Parts of the photosphere are already extending out much farther than usual, as well. But there is another important point to remember:
a)Having just come out of the system, I saw no sign of an algal bloom on Vale VI.
b)Vale VI is an oceanic planet. Vale IV and V are the heavily-populated terrestrial worlds.