[KYBERNAUTS] Investigating the truths of Raravoss as EDENCOM evacuates from the system

Fiction Portal Intergalactic Summit
83

I’ve got one. Back when I was just a church volunteer, one of the things I helped with was the shelter for victims of domestic abuse.

Now we’re all in agreement that domestic violence is objectively evil, right ?

Now one of the forms of domestic violence is controlling what someone is allowed to wear, with threats of violence if they wear something that the abuser disapproves of. Or if they don’t wear something the abuser wants them to.

Now then the Triglavians are handing out bioadaptive clothing. With the implication that without it, the environment is unsurvivable.
So it’s basically “wear this or die”.

Which is functionally the same as the controlling behaviour of domestic violence, on a gigantic scale.

So, morally, that action of giving out bioadaptive clothing is on the same low level as a domestic abuser.

84

How much of our (new eden) population living in misery would be “acceptable” for us to have? For us to sleep whithout giving it much thought?

We as capsuleers are mostly disconnected from the practical realities of the cluster. If our bodies are not up to our expectavions, we change them to new ones without much issue. If one place is hostile, we can move to a new point in the cluster and resume operations.

A planet being able to sustain life is different than people in it actually living. Existing, perhaps, but living?

Every faction at the cluster have a certain ammount of people in them that do not have access to such basic physiological needs like potable water to drink, 3 meals a day to eat and a proper roof to sleep in safety?

Poverty messes up the bodily and cognitive functions of the people involved. Stress screws up really bad people and their brains. That excluding intentional actions like the shitty move a Caldari corp once made of selling recycled sweage to Gallente kindergartens.

How many people are forcibly displaced from their homelands daily? Be it because of war, because some powerful private or public actor decided that the location they have lived in for times immemorial would make a great resort, or that would be a perfectly suitable location to promote their CEWPA forward base?

We “bioadapt” people every single day to sustain a way of life that privileges few instead of many. Genetically, Epigenetically and Biologically. Those changes transform their hability to perceive the world, and messes with their lifespan and the time they have to experience it.

We make changes to the environment that annihilate ones existence as a living entity. Biologically, Psychologically, and Sociologically.

This crap happens every single day and there is no such polarization like when outsiders do it (in a different scale, in different ways, but with similarities nonetheless).

And when one is fed up with this situation, and gets offered who knows what by the Triglavians (as there are several indications of civilian support on the occupied planets), rather than rejected living flesh from a societal structure that never cared much for them, they are seen as traitors?

That will make a lot of the disenfranchised quite happy indeed to live up to New Eden way of life.

Pride before the fall and all that.

Anyway, just because someone can exist somewhere in a certain way, does not mean they want to do it.

For some, what the triglavians are offering are worth fighting for. Be it because their current situation is shitty, because they see potential in the unkown, or simply because they dont give a ■■■■.

How much power can a group actually hold when the masses at the bottom are fed up with the current structure. Never forget they attend our med bays and supervise our reawakening.

I never disagreed about the scale of the changes they are making, but i still see no difference from what we do everyday in a disperse and diluted way across the entire cluster.

2 Likes
85

Thanks you.

As Miss Tsukiyo is saying (if I understand her, please correct me if I’m wrong) telling the other side that they are wrong is useless, we all have our stories.
It’s when people stop listening and letting the actual subjects of the debate choose for themselves that tyranny start.

86

“The team, the team, go team, go sports!”

87

The biggest difference is that sun death destroys the natural ecosystem as well. I agree that “baseliner” inhabitants suffer greatly under the Empires. But if the Triglavian civilian life is so much better, why aren’t they shouting that from the rooftops? Appealing to the masses inhabiting the Empires with the opportunity for a better life would be both morally correct and strategically valuable. That is how you hurt the Empires. Take their power. Help the people rise up.

But, again, for this to work requires proof that life is truly better under Triglavian oversight.

88

It is not immorality for which any sane person condemns the Kybernauts; it is the damage they have contributed to, the damage they collectively and singly bear responsibility for.

Twenty-seven systems have reached ‘Final Liminality’, about the stars of which orbit two hundred and twenty planets, of those, twenty-three are temperate and likely to have been well populated. It would be stunning if in aggregate the number of people residing across the planets and structures of those systems at the times they were taken were not counted in the hundreds of billions.

By death or bioadaptation it is conceivable that the collective have, in the short time for which we have been aware of them, removed more people from humanity than Kuvakei accomplished in every incursion since his return– evil or no, attempts to present the Triglavians as anything other than a threat are as dangerous as they are absurd.

2 Likes
89

A lot of what we do destroy local ecosystems instead of planetary ones, hence the diluted and sparsed.

For a group of people that live by the river, and have been doing so for a lot of time, and that have a spiritual connection with the elements themselves, as to the point of the river being one of their ancestors and family, building an electric dam, flooding the area and relocating the people that lived there, not only changes the local ecosystem, but it is considered murder by some.

But what if we relocate them to another area, with more technology and modern stuff?

While some may even enjoy it, the required psychoadaptation is not some are willing to undergo. With the change in location, their way of life becomes different, the work they did, the relation with the elements, with the food they eat, of how their bodies operate and how their brains process joy, fun and other things. This is also “bioadaptation”.

But again, not one that polarizes the cluster so much. Specially when it is not capsuleers that are getting their lifestyle changed.

When some people actually help to conquer an important trade route because it will disrupt their enemies logistics, why the hell would civilian needs be a topic of discussion other than a narrative spin and propaganda in the middle of a war?

But again, it is what it is.

1 Like
90

dude, that guy still surpass triglavian by a long way

91

Do not speak to me as though we are friends; and for you to assert that with such certainty means you either know more than me, or a good deal less.

I am reasonably confident in my assumption which.

92

quick precision: the suns are not “dead”
we actually don’t know exactly what is happening.

93

More examples of the cruelty of the Empires. That family by the river should have had a choice in the matter. I care very little for trade routes, save for their necessity in the event of mass evacuation efforts. Indeed, in the case of Niarja, I had taken personal time to keep from completely burning out.

I have no dog in the fight in whatever war you’d care to pick, no agenda to further. Only conscience.

Yes, I am generalizing when I say the suns are dead. To elaborate, their ability to support the existing ecosystem has been destroyed, as I have repeatedly said. Detailing all the ways the system’s natural order is dependent on the output of its sun is an exercise for a higher education science class.

94

Except it is met with resistance, and objection, from more than just those people directly impacted. People object on principle. The larger the disruption, the larger the area and the larger the number of people impacted… the larger that outcry becomes. Scale it up to multiple star systems…

And the Trigs aren’t even the ones doing the relocating. They and their Kyber lapdogs are just making it necessary.

Yes, that’s it. Xenuria and I are on opposite sides of this issue as a matter of spin, despite both of us being members of Goonswarm. Let’s just conveniently ignore the fact that I was flying with EDENCOM before this war started, or the actions taken since, right? It’s all just propaganda.

Maybe try not projecting your nihilism onto everyone else, once in a while. I know, I know, it’s hard for you to actually give a crap about even a single other human being, but maybe fake it once in a while.

1 Like
95

Yes it is. Like the Endecom-Triglavian conflict, there are people on one side for certain reasons, people on the other side for other reasons (even sometimes, the same one) and that is how the dance is danced.

“go team, go sports!”

It was not about you, if i wanted to express an opinion about you i would do so directly. I was talking about bigger things, not a person.

I do not consider you a good or a bad person for doing and enabling all the things you wrote you did. Nor the organizations you are part of. Nor the forced displacement or the shitting at the head of the powerless people at the hands of the people who do the shitting.

You have your personal trajectory and your own projections about it, tell the story to others and yourself as you wish.

And since this somehow turned from a Mission to investigate the main mining settlement and Port Saruim Ruins in Raravoss III, to another round of cheering for each side of the conflict and pointing of fingers to the opposite one, to your belly button, i will just shut up for the moment.

2 Likes
96

Or, you know, principled objection to actions people find unconscionable. But you keep on displaying just how much you lack principles.

It’s nice to see your intellectual dishonesty is back. After all:

Who here is a member of a group that did that? And discussion civilian needs? But noooooo, clearly, you weren’t talking about me and Xenuria. You were talking about some other people.

You’re a liar. And a fool.

Oh, what I wouldn’t give for that to last forever.

97

1931 hrs - Team Two Detachment
“The underground settlement’s main entrance and upper zone has been fully scouted. Severe damage to local structures and gate, and the observation tower was burned out from the inside at some point. The remains on the battlefield make it clear that things took a turn here. There are many more Amarr bodies here than Minmatar, and no Triglavian ones - at least none that were left behind. Identified Amarr troops under one “Captain Loarz”, who is dead here among the rest. A small number have signs of damage from energy weaponry, but the majority seem to have been dispatched with blunt or sharp objects, or a large number of both. The Triglavians didn’t kill most of these soldiers - I’d say it was all-but certainly a large group of uprising slaves that did these ones in.”

“The bulkhead doors to the underground settlement have a lot of damage, but look like they were eventually opened manually by someone. 6 Minmatar and 14 Amarr right inside the gate, and two more inside the inner gate checkpoint - all dead.”

“Moving down the tunnel toward the settlement itself now.”

3 Likes
98

1937 hrs - Team One
Sounds of heavy machinery continue in the distance.

“Material analysis of direct-struck wreckage samples from the collapsed area of the spaceport is complete. There is tangible evidence to support the hypothesis that the Amarr themselves fired upon Port Sarum following its loss to planetside Triglavian forces and some number of uprising slaves, but we have no way of knowing the whole story at this time. Certainly, it’s not unreasonable to think that the Imperial Navy would deny an invading force this large planetary asset. Over.”

2 Likes
99

I just want to say that I just realized that back around the time the Amarr were celebrating Foundation Day, the Triglavians basically threw a Slicer themed party in their little “Proving Grounds.”

It’s kind of absurd to think that a group that’s happy to waltz in and forcefully and indiscriminately conquer stars and and bioadapt people has anything against coercive hierarchies. This thread seems like a classic case of projection onto the Triglavians. We really don’t know what their ‘deal’ is so people sort of fill in the gaps with themselves when there’s no basis for it.

The Triglavians, if anything, seem to value power over all other qualities. All the “proving” nonsense and the fact of their invasions themselves.

5 Likes
100

funk continue when you checkin down the menu

101

It does seem very “might makes right,” even if it’s within some interesting limits. The acceptance of those limits might be what makes their civilization viable; usually, broadly-applied “might makes right” doesn’t so much define a civilization as negate it.

2 Likes
102

The Kybernauts who spout that the Triglavians are some force for certain good perplex me - this is, after all, a military invasion campaign for what they see as a claiming of territory and stars that is VITAL to the continued survival of their race.

They have “proven” these systems, with their resulting victory being the justification in their eyes for their righteous claiming of each one. Those who live aboard the planets of the systems are the larger question, which many wish to illuminate.

In major population centers, the Triglavians are seemingly content to let the population be, with the caveat of them needing to submit to bioadaption in many cases.

In industrial settlements and resource processing installations, there seems to be far less quarter - and as this is, again, a military campaign, the claiming of usable resources for the continued operation of their war machine would naturally be a paramount goal over swaying the people in these areas to their side, should they not immediately submit.

My interpretation is that the Triglav are opposed to hierarchies coerced unnaturally, moreso than simply to hierarchies in general - after all, there is proven “glorification” of certain subclades over others even in the records we have so far.

The factors that I imagine fall in the “unnatural” coercion would be things like the Sansha Slave-hive domination, transneural microcontrollers, vitoc, and generational subjugation - things that prevent those subject to them from fairly proving themselves.

The Abyss is harsh and unforgiving: those who prove their ways to be best would be the only ones whose options would rationally be followed, as there’s little room for non-optimal modes of action in such a domain. Glorification of an idea, technology, person, group - all must be done on fair ground in order to be properly proven the better.

3 Likes